The One Thing You Didn't Like in TLJ (For TLJ Lovers)

I agree with everything you just said.

We were supposed to see them get dressed up funnily enough. There would’ve been a scene where they steal fancy outfits from a store window, but it was cut early on. (Finn would’ve accidentally been wearing his tuxedo backwards! )







Speaking of Rose...

Now that The Rise of Skywalker’s come and gone, I do wish that there were less side characters in this trilogy as a whole. I really think Rose and Jannah’s roles should have been combined: they could’ve combined Jannah’s stormtrooper past and potential Force sensitivity with Rose’s sassiness, dedication to the Resistance cause and potential romance with Finn in the future. That could’ve made Finn and Rose’s dynamic in TLJ a little more interesting and then there wouldn’t be need for an underdeveloped side character to be introduced halfway through Episode 9.

In general though, I just feel really bad for Kelly Marie Tran. I know I said I would’ve written Rose to be a combination of her and Jannah, but I still thought Rose was an okay character. She really could’ve been interestingly developed in Episode 9, but no... KMT deserved none of what happened to her, both by the “fans” and the writing for Episode 9.

 

THIS! Rose was such an amazing character! Her story in Colin's DOTF script was awesome! I still want to see Rose and Finn go on more adventures together! I totally thought that in EPIX they were gonna team up again! SMH...

I even fully expected them to be a couple by Episode X, eventually conceiving Force sensitive children together and helping Rey/Ben build a New Jedi Order.


"Ride the Tide"

-SOAS

 

I didn't like the throne room fight either.

First, the tension died with Snoke. It's supposed to be the other way around, isn't it? You fight the minions first then the boss last?

Second, the choreography was bad. Like cheesy 70s kung fu movie level of bad. And I love cheesy 70s kung fu movies, but not in the Galaxy far, far away. One guy rushes in while all the others stand back and wait, then the next guy rushes in, etc.

Finally, the whole thing seemed out of character for the First Order bureaucracy. Not one of the guards called for additional security or a medical team or locking down the First Order equivalent to the nuclear football or anything, they just drew their weapons and started swinging after it was too late to solve anything by fighting. How could they not have an emergency protocol in place? I think the Red Guards were the equivalent to America's Secret Service unit that guards the President, and if someone killed the Prez I can't imagine the Secret Security detail acting like the Red Guards did, with no plan or strategic objectives besides revenge.

I think Jayson's right - it was a fight simply for the sake of having a fight. Lightsaber porn, if you will. It didn't do squat to advance the characters or the story.

 

Canto Bight was pretty useless. Like it didn’t need to happen.

 

I didn’t really like TLJ personally. I didn’t think it was bad either. It was ok to an extent to me. I can see why a lot of people do like it. To be completely fair and honest, my opinion is biased considering Im not a ST lover. With that, my least favorite part of TLJ was that fight between Luke and Kylo on Crait. I know that Luke technically wasn’t there and he was utilizing the force in a way to manipulate some kind of energy. I thought the emotion and idea of the fight was powerful and actually quite well connected; however, I thought the choreography was off and, in my biased opinion, it wasn’t that cool. PLEASE NOTE: the movie wasn’t terrible. As you can see, I have a strong biased. With that, this is my least favorite part of the movie. Also, to be honest, it was difficult to find a least favorite part of the film because I didn’t hate it. Anyway, cheers yall!

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2021 ---

Just to be clear I didn’t love TLJ, but ya know, to me it was a solid film. Im sure the more i watch it, the more Ill like it!

 

I liked pretty much all of it....

 

Two things bothered me. Why were FInn and Rose able to waltz around the Casino in 'work clothes' and not be stopped?

The Farthier scene, like everyone said, just seemed silly and seemed to be just included to fit with SW lore and not make the film too heavy. Honestly they should have included Rey's 3rd lesson.

And there is one more thing that sorta bugs me in light of TROS. If Palpatine made Snoke and was using him as a puppet to carry out his orders. Why didn't he have Snoke grab Rey from the start? The only way I can square this circle is that it took him awhile for him to realized that the Rey in the rebellion is the daughter of his clone. By time he puts two and two together she's long gone..

Snoke was killed and then the Praetorians jumped into action.

If TFO is loosely based on the Nazi's, it's no wonder that they would be dis-organized. My impression that TFO is filled with a mixture of career officers from Palpatine's reign as well as a bunch of younger hyper nationalists who are serving more for their own ego than anything else. There is no esprit de corps. It was why Kylo (as per the TROS novelization) was able to rule, he just played people off against each other and rule as Supreme Leader, even though he was never a part of the military.

 

For the same reasons that Kenobi could hide from Jedi Killers and the Empire on Darth Vader's homeworld while wearing the official uniform of a Jedi Master... 'This Star Wars; details don't apply.

 

That things escalated between Holdo and Poe so quickly.

 

Jake Skywalker, amongst 500 others things!

 

Like many feelings and whatnot, this is all "hindsight is 20/20" stuff.

Finn and Poe's arcs. I understand what RJ was trying to do with the characters and I understand the thought processes behind the arcs, but I don't agree with them.*

I think their arcs should have been switched - Finn should have been trapped in a place where he can't escape unlike what he did with the F.O. and on Maz's planet, while Poe should have been on the mission with Rose. Holdo now has a reason to be rude and abrasive to Finn if she doesn't trust him because he's an unknown quantity*, and there's a nuanced layer of racial subtext that can also be taken as simple "judging based on past behavior and history." Meanwhile Poe can see the bigger picture of the war and the people his actions have cost. Oh, and he's finally with BB-8 for a mission, considering that BB-8 is his droid. Finn didn't need to fight Phasma either. He beat Phasma by gaining his independence, outsmarting her, and forcing her to be a traitor. Any "rematch" was unnecessary fanservice in my opinion; and considering how (offensively) short the fight was, I'd rather they replace that with Poe fighting her. Besides, what's more appealing - a grudge match that can ultimately end one way, or a physical battle between two ideological opposites (the loyal-to-a-fault soldier and the opportunistic traitor)?

RJ's idea for having our heroes hear the hardest things for them was a great starting place, and his idea for Poe's hardest words be "sit down and shut up" along with his arc have actually grown on me over time. But I still don't fully understand Holdo's reasons for being abrasive about it. Besides, Poe didn't need a lesson on faith, he needed to be told "you aren't helping right now," which can be achieved in a multitude of different ways in my mind. In my proposed switch (which I did make in my ST revision), Poe's hardest words are less of "sit down and shut up" and more of "your actions are making things worse for people, not better. You need to learn how to think about the bigger picture." Rose's "not killing what you hate, but saving what you love" becomes far more poignant when juxtaposing Poe's sacrificing of the bombers at the beginning to Rose's sacrificial move for him at the end. It becomes an arc that starts with Leia's words about him getting out of the cockpit, and culminates in him letting Luke be the diversion for the Resistance to flee, both correcting his mistake from the beginning and saving those who he loves.* ...I mean, the movie ends like that anyways, but it's far more poignant to me if Poe's trust in a unlikely ally/desire to compromise for the sake of the mission led to the death of more fighters.

Meanwhile Finn's arc in TLJ is all about learning that there are things worth fighting for, but I don't think he needed to learn this lesson, because every one of his actions after he gets Takodana in TFA proves this. Finn knows there are things worth fighting for. His reason is Rey. I think if he had been told by Rey via a recording "I'm staying in with the Resistance to fight for them," Finn may have said "I'm staying with the Resistance to fight for you," and an arc could have gone from there. Let Finn see the differences between the F.O. and the Resistance close up - let him see how they're not sacrificing each other for the bigger picture or an unachievable ideal, but for their loved ones. For the men, women, and person next to them. For their families, somewhere out there in the galaxy. Let Finn decide that he wants to stay for these people as well. Don't focus on the big picture with Finn - that's the job of Poe and Rey. Let Finn focus on the relatable, the here and now.

So yeah, Finn and Poe's arc being switched. But other than that, I think RJ did a phenomenal job, and I'm looking forward to watching TLJ again sometime soon.


*The Director's Commentary wasn't as helpful on this note as I'd like since RJ tended to care more about the process of making the movie than the writing of it. It after listening to the Russo Bros and Markus & McFeely Writers/Directors Commentaries for their movies, it threw me off. But after going through the rounds of the movie pitch game, I'm really hankering to revisit TLJ's DC and gain a new appreciation for the bts stuff RJ praises.

*In my revision, this becomes a game of cat-and-mouse between Finn and Holdo. Holdo thinks Finn is a spy sent to infiltrate the Resistance and help them with a plan, only to betray them when all of the other cells are known, not unlike a certain EU Apprentice of Vader. She won't reveal her plan because of that. Meanwhile Finn thinks Holdo is a spy that is bleeding off resources in order to run the Resistance dry and make a show of the group's dying efforts, not unlike one of Thrawn's plans in Rebels. It'd turn out right for the wrong reasons - there was a spy onboard, but Finn wasn't that person. It's ultimately Finn who saves Holdo, and declares that it's not his place to try and overcome her mistrust. He won't be dictated by those judging him on who he was or what he did.

*In the newer versions of my revision, this would culminate in him leaving the dogfights of the Final Space Battle in TROS to help coordinate forces, as our heroes need a leader now, not another fighter.

 

I also feel like Finn was useless and he, as a character, wasn’t used well or significantly

 

I thought he would get a broomsaber

 

Not broom boy.

"Maybe he's 'Jake Skywalker,' he's not my Luke Skywalker"

- Mark Hamill

 

Did you experience this in person, online or, both?

 

ohhhhhhh

 

Funny. My brother is named Jake. My name is Luke. Lol

 

I thought the intention of that line and its delivery was that it was meant to sound rote and perfunctory. As if it was acknowledging the fact that we might see it as a formality, and that Luke should instantly acquiesce to Rey's summons. "Yes, of course. We must fight the dark side. Lead me to my sister and my errant nephew, strange girl."

The delivery makes Rey sound like a child sent on an errand to ask for something she doesn't fully understand. Which is essentially what she is in that scene.

 

I'm going to hope that is the reason because I always winced at that line. It does seem to make sense in regards to the rest of the way she was talking to Luke.