SPECULATION The Politics of The Dark Side

I think the choices will be hard line black and white distinctions like destroy a planet, ignore the exploitation of innocent people and so on. But they will frame the story so that it is painted as an option that the heroes might be forced to do for the greater good. Like will Leia blow up a planet to destroy the new 1st Order weapon or give the Hutt control over a planet to gain their support knowing they intend to exploit the people as slaves. The alternative will be prolonged war or even losing (for now) and having to flee. Or using invasive civil control. It will be about how they hold power.

 

I think it will be rather black and white.JJ(among many) says how he wants this movie to bring back the OT feel.I don't think we will see too much of dilemmas/difficult decisions.

 

Great thread. I've seen it talked about here and there that the villains have different agendas. Some theories....

1) Phasma's main objective is probably to capture/kill Finn (and maybe Han if she has a history with him we don't know about)
2) Kylo's complicated. Some theories have him using the FO to satisfy his own dark side agenda, but seeing him on SK base in the trailer might mean he's more aligned with their ideals than previously thought. He's after the saber, but he also captures Rey for a reason when he could easily kill her. And if he happens to be an apprentice of Snoke, does he have his eye on eventually overthrowing him?
3) Hux seems like the counterpart of leia. He probably spends the whole film at his base planning troop movements and giving speeches.
4) Snoke is an enigma.

The battle of Takodana might illustrate this: Phasma's there for Finn, Kylo's there for Rey/saber, and Hux coordinated the logistics of the assault.

 

I think Snoke is going to be awesome and visually stunning but I think he will not make it out of the 2nd act or early in the 3rd. I think that Ren will make the reasonable choice that perhaps the Emperor held Vader back and in a fit of "I am not yours to command" rage will end Snoke and Hux and Phasma will be smart enough to salute the new leader of the 1st Order.

I think there are two "good" factions or at least formally "good" factions. Like a New Republic that is to willing to behave like the 1st Order to keep control or a Resistance who is open to using Terror tactics to fight back against the 1st Order. I don't think it will be a morally grey choice it will be "Oh crap they are going jump way over the line all the way to the evil side if they do that." Like a New Republic planet killer.

Maz I think is likely a pirate who is actually friendly. Like she raids other pirates, or the 1st Order. I think she is likely an old ally of Han and Luke but has a front that she needs to keep up appearances. Like if the other pirates think she is soft they'll be mutiny.

 

I don't think the OT was completely black & white. Sure, the Emperor represented pure evil and lust for power, with Vader his ice-cold, machine-like enforcer. And the definitions of what constitute the ideologies of the Jedi and what we came to be known as the Sith were clearly defined and contradictory. But there is also a sense with Vader that his merciless ways are justified in the name of doing what he views is the honorable thing- to restore order to the galaxy and to destroy the corrupt Jedi. Furthermore, he showed vulnerable when faced with the realization of his son, and it led him to a path of redemption.

I think Kylo Ren will essentially mirror this kind of philosophy. We've been told this much in the trailer. He said this much at Comic Con. He will be absolutely brutal and mercilous, but will be driven by some authoritarian-based ideology that he uses as a justification for his crimes. I don't know if he will take the same path as Vader, but there wil be some grey here as there was with Vader, and likely some event driving him down his current path.

Phasma is just a killer, basically. She is the new Boba Fett.

Hux is probably related to a famous Imperial in the new cannon literature. He's young and appears to basically be in command of all First Order forces, and I am guessing the name had something to do with it. He is probably interested in his own career and power.

I can imagine there being a lot of distrust and conflict among the new villains. They all seem like young hotshots looking to make their mark. It fits with the spirit of the old Empire.

 

Yes

I believe (as JJ has said) that Kylo thinks he is justified in all that he is doing. We will see someone who is doing stuff he thinks is for the greater good.

I kind of sort of disagree. I think the biggest thing is she is a pirate. You know how pirates are. But I don't believe she is strong in the dark side.

 

He is most certainly being withheld some information. Truth of the matter is, his story is likely similar to Finn's in that he has no idea who he truly is. I think he will learn a lot about who he is in this movie.

 

I think this is a cogent argument. I agree with most people that the OT is fairly black/white, but the PT inverts this a bit by showing "good" people making decisions that will lead to the "bad" on display in the OT (granting Palpatine emergency powers and what not).

To @Fartkraum's point, there's that quote from Lucas about each trilogy having its own distinct relation to good/evil. I suspect the ST will be more complex and ambiguous than the PT, in that we won't know necessarily which decisions are right and which are wrong, whereas when watching the PT there's very clearly a feeling that all the supposedly good decisions are just leading to disaster.

To sum up:
- OT: clear good/evil binary
- PT: inverted good/evil binary
- ST: ambiguous multiplicities (various infighting and cross-allegences among "good", "evil" and "neutral" groups)

 

I don't have a link, and I'm paraphrasing, but we've already been informed that episode 7 will be morally ambiguous. I think we'll see some negative results of our OT heroes actions. I think we'll see some current themes along the lines of the creation of ISIS(please don't respond to this with any RL debates...well....do what you want.....lol). I agree with seeing Maz as shifty, but maybe post FO attack shiftyness would fit better with the theme I'm speculating as her castle seems to be attacked because of the heroes arrival (I don't usually like to back such claims with current speculation). @Fartkraum : great thread, and I laughed (as you always make me do) at the GoT cosplay comment. Thanks!

 

Count Rey among those who don't know who they really are.

The trailer has basically told us who the three key players in the galaxy are now: Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren. And it seems that all of them have an identity crisis based on the trailer- Rey and Finn explicitly so, Kylo Ren implicitly so (a guy wearing a mask and going by a different name than his real one clearly has an identity problem). And equally, we know almost nothing about them.

Fascinating stuff from JJ.