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The Problem with Extreme Outrage

Discussion in 'Disney/LFL' started by DailyPlunge, Jul 8, 2018.

?

Will bold minds avoid Star Wars films and leave the films up to hacks and corporate boards?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  3. Other

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  1. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Logan Director James Mangold made some good points about the future direction of Star Wars. We all know about the The Last Jedi backlash. The size and scope of it can be debated elsewhere, but the toxic nature of Star Wars fandom has a long history and could drive away future creators.





    Over the last couple or weeks some of the old memories of disturbing fandom have come back to the surface. Ahmed Best has talked about the abuse he received for playing Jar Jar in the past, but it just came out recently he contemplated suicide after all the abuse. Actors are having to remove themselves from social media to avoid the hate brigade. I

    Can Star Wars survive in the long run if this extreme outrage drives off talented people?
     
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  2. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    Maybe it's just my opinion, but if a talented filmmaker surrenders to angry/malicious fans (like McQuarrie apparently did), perhaps he's unfit for the job and will indeed be better off doing other stuff - nothing wrong with that, I guess. There are people who can cope with the pressure, like Rian and J.J.
     
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  3. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    This is an interesting and unsettling theory. Unsettling for me because I agree with it....I really cannot comprehend the level of hatred out there for Star Wars.
     
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  4. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    A couple of things Ahmed Best said it was a "media backlash" that affected him, it was not fan harassment. It is always hard to put yourself out there and face public criticism, George Lucas has certainly felt that, when I have heard him speak he has seemed genuinely put out that the Prequels and Jar Jar in particular have received so much negative reaction. I suspect one of the reasons he sold Star Wars was he didn't want to face more criticism and when he spoke recently about what he would like to have done with a Sequel trilogy he said the fans would have hated it.

    It is not alright to hound actors because of the roles they play, but it is alright to criticise movies because you don't like them and simply put there were a lot of Star wars fans that did not like the Last Jedi in particular . The problem is in the very nature of Star Wars success, the issue is that Star Wars is so well loved. If you are madly in love with someone and they leave you, the very power of your love is what hurts you and you realise just what you have lost. As Shakespeare put it:

    The summer's flower is to the summer sweet,
    Though to itself, it only live and die,
    But if that flower with base infection meet,
    The basest weed outbraves his dignity:
    For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
    Lilies that fester, smell far worse than weeds.

    If you take on directing Star Wars you need to be brave and know what you're getting in for. I think the main problem is that there has been artistic failure, Abrams and Johnson did not manage to continue and extend that loved universe Star Wars, if some fans are still happy good on them, but for many Star Wars has already been subject to base infection.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I saw this posted a couple of days ago. I didn't the source of where this was published, but this was before the prequels came out.
    [​IMG]
    How can you make people who think like this happy? When they don't get whatever it is they want then they go for the pitchforks.

    I find it difficult to believe that death threats didn't have an effect on him.
    Seems like it effected him to me.
    Here's the thing for me... the "but" isn't required. All reasonable people realize criticism is normal. That's not the issue. Star Wars has a toxic fandom issue that's a real problem.
     
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  6. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    Death threats and harassment are not OK, but pretty much everyone in the public eye gets them. John Lennon was shot, George Harrison stabbed does that make Beatles fandom toxic? The Beatles were extremely well known which means a fair few crazy people knew them, Star Wars is like that. You and I are Star Wars fans, does that make us toxic?
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    This is such an odd way of looking at toxic fandom. Crazy fans attacking the Beatles is horrible.Two wrongs don't make something right. I can't speak for you, but I'm not harassing people online about Star Wars. There's a very clear difference between normal fans and toxic fans.

    Let's quit enabling people with "other fandoms do that." Star Wars has a huge fanbase and if we enable these losers by shrugging it off it's going to keep talented people away from the property.
     
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  8. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    You like that word right ? Toxic fandom ??

    I will break my belly laughing if it happens that you won't like ep IX.

    Never say never.
     
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  9. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Hate to break it to ya, but it's there whether you like to believe it or not.
     
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  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I didn't like most of the prequel trilogy. I never harassed actors or George Lucas afterwards. I'm confused why people can't tell the difference between simply not liking something and being toxic.

    You can not like the film and admit Star Wars has a fan problem.
     
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  11. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Me neither. And I liked the prequels. It didn't ever crossed my mind to do so.

    Maybe this place isn't the good one to do that because there is no toxic fanbase here.

    You better watch on Twitter and answer the people who are doing this.
     
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Is it possible you misunderstood the thread question?
    The fear is that Star Wars content will get worse and worse if toxic fans scare off future talented filmmakers.
     
    #12 DailyPlunge, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  13. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Worse ?

    Worse than TLJ or Force of Destiny would be an achievment.
     
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  14. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    They could get Michael Bay to take over. I'm sure he wouldn't be scared off by what any toxic fans have to say.
     
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I guess this is the fear I have that could happen. Bay doesn't really care about Transformers as a property. The studio doesn't really care either. They'll just churn out content, reboot it, and they'll know audiences will show up. The same could happen to Star Wars.
     
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  16. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    I completely agree with your statement that there is a clear difference between normal fans and toxic fans which was pretty much the point I was trying to make. Being a Beatles fan does not make you like Mark Chapman, the guy was crazy and there are crazy people out there. The media points out that Star Wars fans have harassed Ahmed Best and Kelly Marie Tran and jump to the conclusion that Star Wars fans are toxic. The media loves dramas and in cultural stuff like this they don't need to be accurate, as I pointed out Ahmed Best's statement was that he was hit by a media backlash, does the media go into self reflection no they bash the fans again. We're an easy target. I think they're trying to find an easy way to explain that big discrepancy between the critics response and the fan response to the Last Jedi and the flop of Solo. They're too lazy to really listen to fans .

    This site is heartland for Star wars fans, if there was a toxic fandom problem it would be ripe here but there are no how will we harass Kelly Marie Tran or Ahmed Best. They're not here because people know that is not OK.
     
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  17. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    as a moderator here, i can assure you we have dealt with the toxic side of fandom.
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, this is why I consider this kind of behavior toxic.

    I get that some people might think that Disney, KK, LFL, or whoever is to blame for why they currently don't like Star Wars. But they're going about it the wrong way. Now, any serious creative is going to have serious misgivings on attaching themself to a Star Wars project because there will sadly presumably always be this toxic side of the fanbase that wants to tear down, regardless of quality or results.

    So yeah, if we're being generous we could say that maybe these people think they're helping- but in reality, they're really just setting it up to be even worse. It's like watching lemmings complain about the heat while running toward a cliff.
     
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  19. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Regarding Forces of Destiny, there's this thing called target audience. It's designed for kids, not for us. That's why there are on YouTube and so short.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 10, 2018 ---
    God, imagine a Michael Bay's Luke...
     
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  20. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    He would be exactly like on that poster mocking remake of TLJ. Plus, Rey would have a mini skirt and we would get extreme close-up of her behind. In front of lots and lots and lots of EXPLOOOOOSIOOOONS in sloooooow mooootiooon.
     
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