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The Problem with Extreme Outrage

Discussion in 'Disney/LFL' started by DailyPlunge, Jul 8, 2018.

?

Will bold minds avoid Star Wars films and leave the films up to hacks and corporate boards?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  3. Other

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  1. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    I am tired of being lumped as a Star Wars fan together with those that would openly harrass someone to the point of near suicide.

    I am a Star Wars fan.

    They are not.
     
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I really love Twitter, but it has some negatives. If people were being toxic in comments sections on YouTube/Reddit/Forums who would really care that much? Twitter helps exaggerate the problem because these loses flood Twitter and harass anyone who says anything positive. I was curious what was going to happen when The Last Jedi was released on NetFlix to see how excited people were about watching it. So I've been looking at people mentioning "last jedi" and "NetFlix." I guess I shouldn't be surprised but the vast majority of tweets are positive. Yeah, around 10% are "this is horrible" I ran the feed through a Twitter "positive/negative" measure and it was 2 to 1 positive which is similar to the Infinity War score.

    It is an odd phenomenon... the people who don't like it are a small minority, but they're adamant about how much the hate the film.
     
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  3. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    See, this is what I don't get. Why is there a continued discussion about "the" toxic fandom, instead of people maturely acknowledging there are always toxic people in every aspect of life, as its the nature of humanity? Why is the fandom lambasted? Would you personally, as a mod, consider this a toxic forum because you have dealt with the toxic people that try to spew crap from both ends while here? Why is there continued discussion about Star Wars fandom having toxic people? Nobody has yet invented an anti-evil mind-ray that will deal with bad people, so it's not like Star Wars is any worse than any other fandom of passionate group. Hell, look at sports....
     
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  4. metadude

    metadude Rebelscum

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    I don't disagree with the idea that there is always a toxic section of any fanbase, but I think in this instance there is something else entirely at work. I don't think the sports analogy works because toxicity in a sports fanbase will have a response to some objective concern. For instance, the team has a continual losing record. The QB keeps throwing interceptions. Plays/play calls keep costing the game. There is a real, functional problem manifested in a losing record. So the vitriol, while unsavory, has a root in rationality.

    Now imagine a sports team with a winning record, and a group in the fanbase is calling for players and staff to be fired because, they don't like the colors of the jerseys. They want plays to be called as determined by them, and not the staff. They don't like the mascot. Now, I would say, there is something abnormal at work within that group of fans. Their vitriol isn't rooted in rationality, but in the irrational. Especially when we start hearing the emergence of statements such as, the team owners are giving them the middle finger by not listening to them and, letting their section of the fanbase call the plays. If they start saying, the team owners are clearly and intentionally spiting them by not changing the jersey colors, which they claim are, clearly wrong colors. It's a paranoia which is irrational.

    Clearly there's an attempt to make it seem rational with criticisms like, "It's team jerseys 101; a good team doesn't wear purple with blue" and then you watch as other fans start repeating "Yeah, team jerseys 101." "The QB is a Mondo Dismo" "Yeah, the QB is a Mondo Dismo." And some people may buy the illusion of rationality but, as far as I'm concerned, it's transparent as glass, and only heightens the irrational nature of the problem.

    Really, the only analogies I can think of that describes the situation, are of a group of people who want things the way they demand them, no matter if the others are happy with the way things are. Everyone must capitulate to placation of the fringe group, or they will attack everyone involved in making things, something other than what they want them to be, and anyone who is not, unhappy. Some kind of quasi-terrorism, or, quasi-bullying.

    I think it draws attention and conversation in the same manner as these things, and that's why we're seeing it, spotlighted, as it were. I mean, that's my current evaluation of it, anyway. It's definitely, interesting. In a kind of, unsavory way.

    Then of course there is the socio-political factor at play. Should that even be addressed? I'm not sure if politics is something I even want to go near to be perfectly honest.
     
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  5. metadude

    metadude Rebelscum

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    This I've got to reply to because it's relevant even now. This guy says "WE are the ones who built his studios and bought him his fancy cars" and this is echoed a lot online these days by people saying "WE made Star Wars what it is"; well, no you didn't. Your cart is in front of your horse here. Lucas is the one who made the Star Wars movies. He produced a product, and you spent money on it. That's all that you did. You didn't buy his cars or his studios, he bought those with the money he earned with his product.

    Imagine you work at a job and build a website. You use the money you made to buy a car. Now imagine the guy for whom you made the website, and who paid you for your product, comes up to you and demands he gets to use your car on the weekends, because "I paid for that car." See how absurd that sounds? To actually think that because he bought your service, he somehow owns part of the things you buy with the money you earned.

    I remember Kennedy getting a lot of flack for saying, Star Wars doesn't owe anything to certain fans. Well, she was right. And all the fans who took offense to that and threw a fit, are the same as that guy who bought the website getting offending and throwing a fit because you say to him "I don't owe you anything." All you did was buy a product. You gave Lucas money for his services.

    Now how obviously clear is this? But for some reason, people are still out there, claiming they somehow have some kind of "partial ownership" because they gave a man money for services rendered. And everyone knows that the guy demanding use of the car on weekends is obviously wrong, and if he starts protesting me and trying to undermine my career as a web designer? Then, honestly, the man has gone entirely off the rails of reason.
     
    #25 metadude, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

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    because it's a forum where we discuss things? and one of the things that's making an impact in the world of Star Wars right now is the toxicity of the fandom.
    no one isn't acknowledging that there have always been aspects of toxicity in the Star Wars fandom (and elsewhere). they're discussing its impacts as are currently relevant.

    also, no, i would not consider this a toxic forum because we try to keep it from being that.
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I'm curious why the conversation bothers people. This is the topic in Star Wars right now. Andi from the Star Wars Show was harassed this week about a picture from three years ago. The outage generators require people to watch their content. That's why they keep creating outage. This is a problem and fans shouldn't be afraid of talking about the problem.

    I just had a story pushed to my phone that Rian Johnson is blaming gamergate for people not liking his film. That's a complete misrepresentation of his tweets and it won't be long before someone in our forums will be claiming it's true. Spreading these lies hurts the brand.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    It bothers people because it's on their "side" even though it isn't them.
    That is more than enough to make it uncomfortable.

    But being able to discuss it and not try and hide it is how you prevent it from spreading and becoming a rationalized and accepted part of your side's argument. You know, like certain issues in American politics right now
     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Nailed it.

    We've seen people outright defend Rotten Tomatoes here as a reputable review site. We've seen people all but stand by the KMT harassers.

    Why? Because that's their tribe, and for some reason the thread of not liking a space opera is more unifying than these other, presumably bigger issues.

    Honestly, I really want these people to come back to sense, because at some point if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it'll at least start thinking it's water fowl, and if anything we don't need that small toxic minority to propagate.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    It's always difficult to turn the microscope on yourself and your "team"

    As an avid sports fan, I've all but disavowed the larger fanbases of my favorite teams as a generality because for the lack of a better term, they suck.
    They're ignorant of the sport, they're ignorant of player/owner politics etc. It leads to them rationalizing terrible things because it helps the team.

    That's what the danger is now. Rationalizing what happened to KMT or Andi or any of the others because "it happens all the time" or "it's a part of being famous" or "it happened in the past too" is just a rationalization of a small radical thought to bolster your side because YOU want to win the election...I mean debate over a movie.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    This is a great analogy. I'm a huge sports fan and some of my teams are worse than others when it comes to idiot fans. I'm not afraid of calling it out either and people shouldn't be afraid to call it out.
     
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  12. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Fans will outright all but condone abusing women if it means their team gets a guy who can score points.
    They will ignore it and look the other way and come up with every excuse in the book. It's incredible.
     
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Tribalism is a such a strange phenomenon and you can see it everywhere. Why don't people just look around and say... yeah, that's terrible and you should stop doing that objectively horrible thing?
     
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I'd argue it isn't strange but rather a part of human nature that we have to strive to get beyond.
     
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  15. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    Because I don't see the point. People can talk endlessly about all sorts of things, and talking about bad people doing bad things is one of the lowest hanging fruits. It's like talking about the weather. It's always there, but isn't there anything better to talk about? And no, it's not about "sides". That's the most basic and glib explanation people come up with for practically everything.

    It's about what do you want to do about it? What action are you prescribing to fix the issue. If there is none, are you just talking about it because there's nothing else to talk about? News stories about people being harassed are obviously fine. News is news. But endless articles about how naughty people are being just makes me wonder if people are just bored and having nothing interesting to write about.

    You must not watch many sports. Sports fans can be toxic purely because of alcohol, win or lose. Sports fans can be toxic purely because they are facing a rival, or team they hate, win or lose. Sports fans can hate a player that's even doing good, if they just plain don't like the guy (Go ask the typical Brazilian what he thinks of Neymar). Claiming that toxicity in sports only has a rational basis is absurd.
     
    #35 ZDTemplar, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  16. Oursourced

    Oursourced Rebelscum

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    Regardless of your opinions on the subject, let's all agree that talking about issues in our community is more productive than talking about why we shouldn't talk about issues in our community.
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    The point is if the Star Wars community doesn't tell these loser to shut up it's going to hurt the brand and drive away talented people who tell amazing stories. Tolerating these people has gone on too long. Sticking our heads in the sand and acting like it's not a problem isn't going to help.
     
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  18. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Cantina's Mad-Hatter
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    We are talking about people that are in our group, We don't have to agree on everything SW. I have said it before that would be boring. I love openly discussing all things film.

    The main problem is extremism. People in general feel so entitled that they think this behavior is ok. People who threaten actors over a role are the same people who sh*$ on a Starbucks lobby floor. It is more of a problem with everything as a whole versus just SW but what we have here is a starting point. So we a have a group here willing to discuss how we start to fix this.

    I have some very Toxic fans at work, I tried to steer clear of SW with them. It makes me hate being a fan when I know I get lumped in with entitled cry babies who are upset that they did get their way for once in their life. All I really want to say is Maclunkey grow up you were never told that life was going to be your Disney movie.....I know it doesn't fix they problem.

    So where do we start? Yes us. As a group who love this and don't want to see it tarnished any further, where. We are all around the globe. Someone posted a video a couple weeks ago from fans for Kelly and it was great. That video is from people like us! I have things I dislike some things in the movies, we all do. It isn't enough to ruin everything. Remember I am also a Star Trek fan and Paramount role out a huge pile every now and then. So do we just lock them in a room and let them scream until they wear themselves out? Do we just smack them in the mouth? Just hug them and tell them its not their fault? I think if we put are heads together we could come up with something. I am very fond of the idea every time they say something unrealistic we just shove pie in their mouth.

    I am definitely not trying to come across as holy then thou or an a$$hole. I have made some Maclunkey good friends here and have developed a very hardcore love for pie!! We can do it. We will bring back the fandom.

    Side note I am extremely tired and have slept well so I will reread and edit this tomorrow.
     
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  19. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    . sw copy.jpg
     
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  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Don't feed the trolls is always a common tactic and for the most part it's wise, but there's far too much enabling going on in our community. If a person feels compelled to defend bad behavior simply because they agree about the film then they're part of the problem.

    Calling Kennedy and Rian Johnson names happens in this forum quite a bit and for the most part we tolerate it under the guise of civility. Should we really tolerate calling RJ "ruin johnson." I don't know.
     
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