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The Problem with Extreme Outrage

Discussion in 'Disney/LFL' started by DailyPlunge, Jul 8, 2018.

?

Will bold minds avoid Star Wars films and leave the films up to hacks and corporate boards?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  3. Other

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  1. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Cantina's Mad-Hatter
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    I totally agree as someone who has passively let it go on to long. But I cant also just say only my opinion is right. I really want to voice their love and hate of things. I just don't want the insanity with it. They get mad when they feel like they are bullied but can make death threats against others. @DailyPlunge I don't know. We have a start here we just have to get it to catch on. Education is beginning.
     
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    There are people who love Attack of the Clones and I don't get mad that they like it. We can discuss the film in a civil manner. I just don't understand why people who dislike something have to harass people and be hostile towards everyone who likes it.

    When JJ was asked about bigots and Star Wars he was clearly talking about bigots and sexists. I lost count of the "he's attacking everyone who doesn't like the movie" posts in this forum. There's an element of "I want to be angry" in the DNA of some people.
     
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  3. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I have voted no in your poll and answer yes to the question you asked in your post. Why? Because we, sensible fans, are not going to let toxic fans ruin SW. How? We are just going to ignore them. They are simply not worth the attention and we are simply not going to give it to them. The best way to deal with tantrums is ignoring them. Unfortunately if we give in to toxic fan manipulation like that frequently witnessed on social media, we lose authority as a sensible and intelligent fan group. I’m an optimist so I’m sure people are going to learn this lesson fast. I know, however, this is hard. It’s hard to keep quiet when people are unfairly belittled and insulted. I suppose when people are being abused one just has to speak up and condemn the behaviour, but best not to dwell on it.

    The problem with twitter and all those platforms is that they give certain people the illusion that their opinions matter, when in reality, they don’t. At worst they are the perfect arena for unsavoury characters to bully and abuse others (KMT, RJ among others) and carry out witch hunts (what happened to James Gunn is a sad example of the latter. I can’t actually believe Disney gave such credence to the trolls that dug out that content... ). And of course let’s not forget how these platforms, twitter in particular, work as an echo chamber spreading half truths and misinformation, which more often than not encourage populism and polarised thinking positions.

    Sometimes I cannot but agree with Lawrence Kasdan when he says: “if the internet stopped existing tomorrow, would it really be so bad?”. As an artist, he has it right. Nothing worse for creativity that a cacophony of unsolicited opinions.
     
    #43 Kylocity, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  4. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I was reminded of this thread today when I read this Beniof and Weiss article in the Hollywood Reporter.

    This toxic fandom issue is a cancer to the brand and it's going to keep people away from the IP.
     
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  5. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    Part of the problem is the media, who LOVE stirring up trouble. If I remember correctly they portrayed JJ as attacking fans who didn't like The Last Jedi. Which he wasn't doing. He simply said, "If you are someone who is threatened by women..." I don't think ANY Star Wars fan is "threatened" by women. Much less STRONG women. I mean, sheesh, if you are then you must be watching a different series of films from what I've been watching. Leia, Padme, et.al. are strong women. The books, be they EU or nu-cannon, all have strong women. Mara Jade anyone???

    I think what happens is that in people's busy lives, they see a headline and go with it. Forgetting the media loves this crap. Or they actually click on the link and read, but they've already decided what the story is going to say, and see what they want to see.
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I just don't get it. It really feels like many of them don't want any new content at all.

    Which is fine- if you're good with the Star Wars we've got, cheers! But imagine spending that much energy, on a daily basis, just to keep other people from enjoying what you are no longer interested in.
     
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  7. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    In any given "movement" there are a variety of people in it. In this case there are some who simply want to complain. Those who, for whatever reason, feel superior by pointing out every little flaw, real or perceived.

    There are those who vehemently dislike what Disney has done. I have a friend like that. He's a self described former Star Wars fan. Loves the EU. Loves everything up to Rogue One (didn't care for The Force Awakens and despises The Last Jedi). I think if you asked him, and many of those who fall here, what they want and they'd simply say "better" Star Wars films.

    In a strange way, it reminds me of the prequels. Some of the OT fans complained about them bitterly. They wanted earth shattering films. But that was never going to happen. The expectations for what the sequel trilogy was supposed to be/do was out of proportion to what was possible.

    Criticism is fine. Good even. But if someone is going to jump on twitter and bitterly complain to say, Rian Johnson? Man, those fools need to get a life. Like go read a book or something.
     
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  8. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    You're probably right (though I have seen people outright say they simply don't want anything more, but they're likely a minority).

    But I just find it so ridiculous how many people are already diametrically opposed to TROS, or even B&W or Rian's trilogies that we knew nothing about. I mean, those who had a problem with TLJ, sure, that's a valid opinion (though I certainly don't need reminding of it on a daily basis).

    But to constantly whine about a movie you haven't even seen yet? I mean, I'm not one to tell people they're not a "real fan" of something, but if you won't even give it a chance then I have trouble thinking you actually like the thing as a whole anymore. Like, I'll make fun of trailers for whatever Pirates of the Caribbean or Transformers movies come out next, but I really don't consider myself a fan of those franchises anymore.

    I don't know, I just don't get this actively rooting against Star Wars thing that seems to be happening with some, now.
     
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  9. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I think some of these are just folks complaining to complain. I think there are folks complaining about TROS who are upset by the leaks. Whether or not that is smart or realistic, it is what it is. Until they have something solid, like the film, that is all they have to go on.

    As for Dan and Dave I won't go into it too deeply here, but there were some major concerns with them and their effort in season 8. Heck, now that we've heard from them, we know they are hacks. I hate throwing that out there, but seriously, they essentially admitted they never understood ASOIF and removed as many of the fantasy elements as possible. Why would LFL want these two working on Star Wars? I was on board (even if I had some misgivings) up until season 8. They hacked that story to death.

    As for Johnson, I'm not going there. The only thing I'll say is that if you like TLJ, and Johnson's choices then it is probably more difficult for you to understand why the people who dislike what he did are as adamantly opposed to the idea of him as they are.

    I have to say, I don't think the folks who dislike "Disney Star Wars" feel like they are rooting against Star Wars. They are rooting for, I assume they would say, better Star Wars. The only way I can convey this is through metaphor. I'm a Redskins fan. Been one for decades. Since the 1970s. I'm rooting for Washington to lose every darn game from here to January. Why? Because the GM/President, coaches, all of them need to be fired. Further, we need draft picks and the higher the better. Hell I wanted them to trade away some players to get more picks. I'm not really rooting against Washington (although in the short term I am). I'm rooting for them over the long term.
     
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  10. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Only problem with that is what do you want "Disney Star Wars" to win? It is clear with the "Redskins" you want them to win a Super Bowl and you feel they need to be bad before they get good. Gotcha. Now for "Disney Star Wars" they have played 4 games so far and going by box office and critical consensus they had 3 great games and 1 OK one. Prognosticators are thinking that the TROS game looks very promising and so does The Mandalorian game. If you want them to bomb then unlike the NFL the owners could possibly drastically cut the salaries and staff and maybe even mothball the whole thing.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I hate talking in generalizations because people shouldn't be judged for their opinions. It's the actions in regards to those opinions which can be negative. I find the "fandom menace" group fascinating. Many of those people hate everything that's been made by Disney so far. The exception to this is Star Wars Rebels and for some Rogue One. Many of these people are huge EU fans and I think that's part of the issue.

    The EU really turned Star Wars into Leia/Luke's kids and their history. In hindsight, this was a mistake by Lucas letting people just go wild with his stories. If that was something he didn't think should be the case then he shouldn't have let it happen. Many of those stories are dear to people and Lucas threw it out the window. Then this trilogy happens and people are still pissed that Rey isn't related to Luke or Leia. I suspect this wouldn't have been such and issue if people weren't expecting it.

    Then there are people who wanted another trilogy for Han/Luke/Leia. I'm not sure why some people assumed that this trilogy would be about them, but that also led to some disappointment.

    These people what "better" stories, but I'm not sure what their definition of better is other than give us fan service?
     
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  12. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    They have given away what they want. They love the overpowered character stuff. I loved Rogue One and the Vader scene at the end. It fit in that context. I dont want a full movie of that. I would find it totally boring. It is like the reaction by many of those same folk to the Vader fan film. I thought it was tedious and boring. The huge EU and Fandom Menace folks were totally nuts for it. I think for a series of films you need more balance and pacing. Having overpowered characters is like playing a video game where you put the character into god mode. Sure maybe lets you demo some things, but playing the game that way makes it boring.

    Since 30+ years passed since ROTJ release and when TFA was going to release made it impossible for a Han\Luke\Leia trilogy where they were in their prime. Geriatric Star Wars isn't what we were ever going to get. How many people really wanted that? Did they want a film where the 3 were all de-aged digitally, because thats the only way it could possibly have been done. Or new actors or move those characters to supporting characters for new characters.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Freddie, Filoni and George agree

    NSFW, I guess....

     
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  14. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I can't disagree. Nor do I understand exactly what a group would want. Personally, I'm not a Luke fan. I was when I was like 7, but after Empire I was team Vader all the way. LOL Having said that, I think you are right in that the story in the EU was focused around Luke, Leia, Han and their kids. This was a HUGE mistake in so far as people expected the ST to be somewhat similar. I know a former student of mine who was a HUGE EU fan really wanted them to do some of what was in the EU. Of course that wasn't going to happen. Why would Disney simply adapt say the New Jedi Order books to film?

    I like Freddie's work on Rebels, but what he is doing is a classic logical fallacy. Appeal to authority. He is saying that because he learned from Filoni (someone the fans he is arguing with love) and Filoni learned from Lucas, then he, Freddie, should be believed. His citation of them is one of his primary arguments in this video. Great, he learned from them. But did he? A lot of what he says there makes no sense. I get it, he is passionate, but he does himself no favors in that video.

    And this gets back to extreme outrage. When you are angry and upset, you don't think. You just spew forth whatever pops into your head. At one point he mentions "Star Wars is for kids." Well, yes, and no. Lucas said (I don't rmemeber where but I know it was George) that SW was originally for like 12 year old boys. BUT, what made it a classic, and why we are all here now, is that it appealed to ALL AGES. It wasn't JUST FOR KIDS. It had parts which appealed to them, but parts which appealed to adults. You don't become the second most popular film ever by simply appealing to one demographic.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Which part of it makes no sense? That the force isn't a level based system? That Star Wars is made for kids?
     
    #55 RoyleRancor, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
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  16. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    George said that at the 40th Anniversary panel at Star Wars Celebration Orlando in 2017. I do believe he said it before that as well. I just was in the audience in 2017 and remember it specifically. It is for the 12 year old in all of us.
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I'd be curious what you think doesn't make sense. He's generalizing about what some people are mad about, but he targeting the toxic group. I think he has a firmer grasp on how the force works that most of fandom.
     
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  18. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Commander

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    Star Wars was always for kids, but I would argue that Lucas' ideas and political views seeped in. (George Lucas is a grown man making these movies, after all.). Han discovering that he's found his place in a greater cause in the rebels, I feel, is a pretty complex and interesting idea for Star Wars if it was intended for kids. It's more than fighting for your friends or something that could be described in a kids' film. It's an idea of supporting a community or a cause, which as far as I'm concerned, you mostly find that being described on PBS on television.
     
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