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The Problem With The "Special Edition" Emperor in Ep. V

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by tm0910196, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I don't understand this complaint. In fact, I don't understand any of the complaints regarding this scene. It's obvious that by this time, Palpatine knows about Luke's identity in both versions.
     
  2. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    So many funny comments here about this change. Now, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box but the change in the dialogue between The Emperor and Vader (which did not occur in the the special edition; the change was made much later, when the films were released on DVD - the scene was actually filmed during the making of Revenge of The Sith) makes perfect sense to me. Vader is playing the Emperor - the OP asks why Vader says "How this is this possible?" and claims this is a sign of cluelessness on his part, given his earlier dialogue and what is in the opening crawl; Vader isn't clueless - he wants Skywalker for himself, he even says as much during the duel in Cloud City. The exchange between Vader and the Emperor is now a perfect insight into the duplicity of the master and apprentice relationship.

    As for the original dialogue, it was deliberately ambiguous in order to preserve the big reveal at the end. Once you know the true relationship between Vader and Luke, the original dialogue makes little sense.
     
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  3. ATMachine

    ATMachine Rebelscum

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    Unfortunately, the revised dialogue makes little sense in the context of the film itself. The original dialogue at least was consistent within the same movie.
     
  4. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    It seems as if the only time many are willing to complain about the Original Trilogy, they always focus their complaints on the Special Editions. Very few people seem willing to point out any flaws from the trilogy's original version or its narrative. I find this to be a bit hypocritical.
     
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Vader WOULD fake it because smith always betray each other in the end...also, Vader is all about family so of course he would turn his son of all people to fight against the emperor because this empire stuff and how his life turned out is nothing that he ever wanted.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 19, 2017 ---
    They have rose tinted glasses talking about the original versions
     
  6. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    It makes perfect sense to me.
     
  7. ATMachine

    ATMachine Rebelscum

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    To spell it out bluntly: Vader knows the surname of "Skywalker" in the opening scene, and uses it in front of the officers on his Star Destroyer -- but expresses incredulity that this same person could be his own son while talking with the Emperor later in the film. That's a giant gaping inconsistency that the original (where Vader simply says "I have felt him" when the Emperor mentions Luke) doesn't have.

    Now, one could argue that Vader is playing dumb in front of the Emperor, but then he's going and saying Luke's surname in front of his entire bridge crew, which probably would get back to Palpatine somehow. This change is bad because it's internally contradictory, and worse, it pulls attentive viewers out of the film, destroying the suspension of disbelief.

    And so it's one of the major reasons why I contend the SEs were designed to deliberately make the SW films worse. Just the sort of thing Lucas predicted could happen while speaking to Congress back in 1988.
     
  8. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    If you can't accept the change in the dialogue then I can't help you.

    And if you think that George Lucas would go to all the time and trouble and personal expense of adding and changing scenes in the films with the sole intention of ruining them, well, I'm afraid I'm going to have to keep my opinion to myself for fear it causes offence.

    MOD EDIT
     
    #28 Daft Ada, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2017
  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I fully agree and his main intention is to not necessarily make it better, but rather to keep tweaking the films until they are exactly the way that he initially intended them to be
    .
     
  10. ATMachine

    ATMachine Rebelscum

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    Well, Lucas warned Congress in 1988 that unless steps were taken to properly preserve classic films, copyright holders could alter them with CGI and essentially suppress the original theatrical versions. What better way to make his point than doing just that to his own films, on which he held the copyright?
     
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  11. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    South Park handled it brilliantly:

    Kyle: It's not too late to do what's right... Give us the print! There's still some good in you, Mr. Lucas! We know there is. [Lucas hangs his head in shame and turns away]
    George Lucas: It is... too late for me, boys.
    Kyle: You yourself led the campaign against the colorization of films! You understand why films shouldn't be changed!
    George Lucas: M-that's different. These are my movies. I made them, and I have the right to do whatever I want with them!
    Stan: [steps forward] You're wrong, Mr. Lucas. They're not your movies. They're ours. All of ours. We paid to go see them, and they're just as much a part of our lives as they are of yours.
    Kyle: When an artist creates, whatever they create belongs to society
    George Lucas: Have I... become so old that I've forgetten what being an artist is about?

    Please keep this passive-agressivity out of here.
     
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  12. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    I'd ridicule your manhandling of the English language ("passive-agressivity" indeed) but I wouldn't want to cause you further distress. Suffice to say that anyone who supports their case by quoting some puerile cartoon isn't really worth debating with.
     
  13. Jar Jar Skywalker

    Jar Jar Skywalker Rebel Trooper

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    I do not think they should have shown the Emperor at the TESB, for me they should have kept her surprised until ROTS. It could be a voice message, or just like Star Wars Rebels.
     
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