The Psychology of Kylo Ren

i listened to the one on youtube:

the one above is kinda interesting from one guy, but the other guy is sorta not taking it seriously and being irritating.

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the one you posted looks really interesting! looking forward to listening this afternoon.

i really think if you view Ren's relationship with Snoke as an abuser/victim relationship, everything he does makes perfect stockholm sense.

and i suspect he'll get worse before he gets better.

 

Read We Need To Talk About Kevin. That's essentially the character of Kylo Ren.

 

Shall I tell you something really funny: Daisy Ridley is planning to do a maior Psychology. Makes you look at these particular scenes in quite a different manner doesn't it http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/28/daisy-ridley-star-wars-the-force-awakens:

 

Using her own major for acting...HOW CONVENIENT lol z

 

Nice one and great idea - I look forward to listening to the podcast.

I'm not sure about stockholm syndrome now (after suggesting it in multiple posts!). Wouldn't it require Snoke or his agents/proxies to use a position of power, violence, spatial confinement or abuse over time whilst allowing enough a-periodic positive reinforcement schedules to enable him to identify/empathize/love the instigators?

I'm guessing a more subtle seduction, perhaps playing on teenage angst or being unintentionally driven into his influence but it may depend on whether the subject is aware of the domination/manipulation and whether grooming is considered abuse.

 

finished listening to the podcast ~ some interesting stuff in there about cognitive dissonance.

he talks about Snoke "grooming" Ren, but doesn't really go too deep into that.

not sure i agree about the anti-social personality disorder stuff ~ it seems to assume Ben was totally broken before Snoke entered the picture, which i don't think the story fully supports.

it's cool to see some really detailed analysis of the character

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 27, 2016 ---

i think the seduction of Anakin was less victimized.

1. Palpatine, used, lied to, and manipulated Anakin, but Anakin made choices about taking power for himself in that and he believed in Palpatine's agenda. we don't know what Ren is getting from Snoke aside from some position of power within the FO.
2. Palpatine gave Anakin praise and fluffed him a lot. Snoke treats Ren rather shabbily.
   
3. Palpatine appears to have given Vader the benefit of all his experience and training. Snoke appears to withhold, control the power, makes Ren beg.
4. Palpatine approached Anakin as an adult. Snoke apparently has his claws into Ben from an early age. possibly close enough to alienate him from his family, make him feel like no one but Snoke could understand or help him, etc.

it's mostly that scene on the bridge when Ren is specifically defending Snoke and pretending not to be afraid that suggests the stockholm thing to me. he's not picking his own words: he's just parroting Snoke because Snoke has obliterated his identity. i feel like that's a real different relationship from the one we saw with Palps and Anakin.

 

i guess i think "stockholm" because he is trapped with Snoke. emotionally and psychologically. i'm speculating of course, but even if he wanted to escape, he doesn't seem able.

there's his father right there, come to collect him. "Come home: we miss you!" but he can't do it.

and i liked, too, that they talked specifically about the prognosis and his redeemability/rehab.

i think it's really interesting that the character has sparked so much psychological analysis. i don't recall if there was this much attention ever put on a Star Wars character before (not this broadly). part of it, weirdly enough, seems to be about reconciling us to Han's death and making sense of it all.

 

Also Anakin Skywalker already had a pretty unstable mind...

 

Maybe prolonged Force Use takes a toll on the mind/body.

 

Hm that podcast is not very good in my opinion...(the other podcast on that same page about Kylo's intentions about Luke Skywalker as well was not very good either, I'm afraid...The only point that was correct was the observation that Kylo has very different motivations and intentions than Snoke...)

I watched almost all of the Cantina podcast about Kylo Ren's psychology but I got really tired/and irritated hearing things that showed glaring misunderstanding of things so...I had no patience to continue...Too much speculation on premise that is based on speculation and assumptions that are really just that, and though there were bits and pieces that would sound interesting, they quickly dissolved to further speculation based on assumptions...

My reaction I'm afraid is:

 

As much of Star Wars is heavily and directly influenced by Joseph Campbell, who was also heavily and directly influenced by Carl Jung, there should likely be some consideration of Jung's concept of the Shadow with respect to Kylo Ren:

Some potentially informative links where the concept of the Shadow is discussed in ways we can begin to appreciate the complexity of Kylo's apparent / ostensible psychology:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...tial-secrets-psychotherapy-what-is-the-shadow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)

Kylo's active approach and entreaty to the "darkness" (e.g. his vocal appeal to Vader's helmet; "show me again...") situates him intriguingly in the conversation of the Shadow.

If we are to believe the Kylo's actual state of mind as he is presented, he is truly torn in his endeavor to do what neither Vader nor Luke could do in transitioning from light to total darkness: embracing and becoming the Shadow and consciously so. In other words, accepting the otherwise denied aspects of his darker self.

That he seems to move closer into the darkness in The Force Awakens occurs with some bittersweet irony as he does so unmasked before his father.

Above them, the pure light from the sun expires, and a new synthetic light (i.e. that of Kylo's cracked-crystal-powered lightsaber) ignites.

Illumination and darkness simultaneously in that one scene.

JediMasterRobert

 

yeah, i think i hurt myself just typing it...

 

It's a great listen, especially for those who have labeled Ren as a sociopath, psychopath and/or a narcissist. I especially liked the part when he talks about how Leia and Han might've feared their son for his Vader qualities/potential and Ren may have sensed it, thereby playing into his development.


What I find hard to accept this theory about Kylo Ren's character is that just about every major (or minor) character had the capability to embrace evil. There was nothing special about Anakin's character that made him evil. And that whole line from Han about Kylo or Ben having a touch of Vader in him was ridiculous and a good example of bad writing. No one inherits evil, because everyone has the potential for evil within him or herself. All it takes it a certain situation or emotional state to bring it out.

This is one of the reasons why I found this movie so frustrating.

 

has no one in your family ever said: cousin so-and-so is just like his uncle bob? or that your little sister takes after her grandmother?

by "he has too much Vader in him" i'm sure they mean he's predisposed to anger, impatience, etc. not "evil" per se, but the traits in Anakin that led him down that dark path.

we don't know what specifically triggered the sense in them that Ben was like his grandfather (maybe he was even a cruel child), but clearly some part of his personality gave them cause to worry.

 

Interesting listen, thanks for sharing.

I like how the expert mentioned how psychology is an inexact field and "6 different experts might give 6 different diagnosis". This actually happened in the famous Rosenhan Experiment and lead to the industry creating the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) to try and bring some credibility to the profession! His honesty made a refreshing change from many professionals who often like to give the impression that what they do is difficult, important and infallible.

I was surprised he gave the impression that cognitive dissonance was something the subject was aware of as though they consciously chose a side to come down on. My first introduction to cognitive dissonance was this 5min video indicating the subjects are unaware of the dissonance. It's pretty scary watching as the implications are far-reaching.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 28, 2016 ---

Oh and thanks for the Jungian philosophical reference to "Shadow" @JediMasterRobert - fascinating.

Your link states "Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative" which plays right into the cognitive dissonance theories. Kylo knows he's torn inside but the flaws and hypocrisies of his dissonance do not seem to be apparent to him. (Or probably us for that matter.) E.g. Calling Rey's allies murderer's and traitor's.