THE REALITY OF MEETING YOUR HEROES- LUKE SKYWALKER AND THE GENIUS OF THE LAST JEDI

It was great in a thread, it's great here.

 

Great thread!

 

Yoda was amazing in this. (Except for the first shot...which looked like they took the TPM puppet and removed it's teeth...seriously lol).

I remember thinking about this watching Rebels - the student is always supposed to surpass the teacher. Yoda blatantly says it here. Forget the books, forget the lessons you taught her and Ben. Your failures, like Anakin's, will be left for them to learn from. It even calls back to that shot of Luke connecting his own mechanical hand to the limb he struck off of Vader. He learned something from the failure of his father, as Rey must learn from Luke's failures and redeem them. It's all very classic and new at the same time.

I suggest Nostalgia Critic & Bro's 'Sibling Rivalry' review where they parse out the 'rhyme vs. rehash' critique. They mention how everything in TLJ 'rhymes' but doesn't re-hash like TFA does.

 

You know, talking to people about the movie they liked it but the build up to Luke was so huge, maybe they pictured him igniting his saber and doing incredible jedi master things.

But they showed Luke as the man they thought he had become and it worked for me.

Little moments. Him spearing the fish, his fitness and walking around the island, the way he spoke to Rey during training. I really liked that.

And I think people need to realize just how incredible the power he displayed to project himself in front of Kylo without him being able to detect his presence wasn't real. It took everything from him. And what a moment with him gazing into the sun at the end. It almost gave more credence to how Obi-wan left in ANH. It kind of makes that moment more whole for many.

 

I haven't watched it yet, but I hope they mention how without TFA, TLJ doesn't work.
We needed (IMO) that tether back to the OT for something as bold and brazen as TLJ to work.
In order for you to feel shaken and disturbed, you have to be connected...

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---

The perfect Luke Skywalker good bye

 

I have to agree, the more I think about and analyze this movie, the more impressed I am with it. It is in its own way a work of art. It seems that many who I have encountered that disliked the movie went into it with a certain amount of baggage. 'This didn't go the way it should have, or I didn't like what they did with that'. And art and the way one experiences it is completely subjective. Bravo Mr. Johnson, and bravo Lucasfilm

 

Thank you for writing this, I am so relieved to find your thread.

I left feeling it was brilliant but continue to struggle with how to put it into words!!! You have inspired me to try. Here goes:

Luke and Rey spoke of the cycle of life. Life, death that feeds new life, light, dark, peace, violence, cold, warmth. For me personally-this was one of the most profound lessons and aha moments.

Life moves on, grows, evolves, changes, dies & makes room for new life & adventures. It's a cycle & the way of things. The force is the ever turning wheel that binds it all together which is why none of us is really ever gone. We're all part of this cycle.

Secondly, characters without balance lack humanity. Our heroes get scared, tired, angry, frustrated....just like us. They aren't "gods". Luke kept trying to explain that to Rey. Love that Rose had to see Finn's weakness and was strong enough to challenge him. Poe straight up said Holdo was not what he expected. He expected a warrior & was disappointed with her lack of action (not realizing saving those she loved was the brave choice). He had to learn the greatest battles sometimes are won with a whisper....not a bang. Rose taught us if we loose our humanity in the battles and start to make it about hating & wanting to kill our enemy (Kylo) instead of saving those we love (Rose, Luke, Holdo)....then we have lost the heart of why we are fighting. Luke taught us to always think for ourselves & question our heroes...to be careful not to worship them...he taught us that warriors don't destroy & kill-they protect and save. (He never struck Kylo in the last battle-very loud statement). Lea told Rey they had everything they needed to rebuild. That is why Kylo hung his head at the end. He got the power he craved like Vador & unleashed his hate on Luke but in the end was left empty & alone. Rey got not much of what she wanted but was not left empty. She was surrounded with love, friendship, peace, and hope. On the surface it looked to the audience that the rebellion was beat up....but actually it was Kylo & the FO who lost. They weren't able to extinguish the "spark"

 

Holdo as Poe's hero? The audience wasn't "not smart enough to see Luke being a failure" was diliberate story telling. These themes are very obvious. People..just..didn't..like it. While overall, Luke was the best part, this sentiment is absurd man

The passive notion and textbook rationalization that the movie right now is too smart for people is quite the defense.

I could go on and on in a psychoanalytical Jungian schema based analysis and correlate it with confirmation bias, along with the use of Socratic philosophy to point out just how flawed this method of thinking and assessment is.

I could further ellaborate on how it simply is an attempt to defend an opinion and invalidate another (which frankly, that's what this thread is at its core, regardless of what people say), but I accept that some people don't love it, and that others couldn't appreciate the movie beyond its flaws. I accept that neither side provides an objective reality to judge the quality of the film. You should too. Criticizing the intelligence of sample to explain their dislike for a work of art is ironic

 

Hello, while I'm sure you and I probably disagree on different components of the film (which I welcome and look forward to), I do agree with you that we have to be careful with how we all treat each other. I personally believe people should have the right to like or dislike the film. I LOVE how art and cinematography effects us all in different ways. There are so many different perspectives!!! I was just really happy to have someone point out the hero aspect of the film, because I was struggling with how to communicate it.

Thank you for your perspective and reminding me that just because it is my opinion and thoughts, doesn't make it any better, more intelligent, or superior than anyone else's.

Sending you positive vibes and may the force be with us all (tee hee)!

 

I watched the movie for the second time & specifically looked for those Jedi Texts. Yep....they were on the falcon!!!

 

The people that didnt like the movie is stupid? Ok.

 

No, he deviated too much from the Luke we saw at the end of ROTJ. Mark did a good job though.

 

In terms of heroes, meeting one's hero, we are all really human, we build expectations and sometimes they are not realized. I can also use the analogy of some sports heroes who don't necessarily want to be someone's hero, maybe because they are disgruntled or just there to get a huge pay check, anywho, as devout martial artist I've met some of my heroes and some are humble and some just don't want to deal with it. As a comic book fan I've met some of my favorite artist and writers and you get pretty much the same thing. Some want to help and some just want to be left alone...

In terms of Luke, I wasn't entirely surprised because the trailers and what I read kind of gave it away, but I would have rather gotten Hero Luke. The Legend of Luke Skywalker was a book I really enjoyed; I was looking forward to hero Luke tht I read in that book.

RJ is a creative film maker hopefully he will take everyone's criticisms and make a better trilogy, I just hope he doesn't go totally fan service or patronizing cause that could be bad as well. I remember when AOTC was released what shocked me was Lucas made a darker film with a Boba Fett clone and most said he was patronizing the audience, he should have continued to make his stories his way. i hated the title Attack of the clones cause it sounded like clowns... haha anyway he later gave us a cool title Revenge of the Sith, anyway no matter what RJ does with this new trilogy it will be divisive.

 

I thought it was brilliant. RJ did a great job of making the story of Ben and Luke similar to Ben and Anakin but not the same. Ben was sent by Yoda to kill Vader not to redeem him. Ben was heartbroken by what Anakin had become but his part was not as dircrct as Luke’s was in creating Kylo. Luke had a very human moment of self doubt when he thought about killing Ben. It was a fleeting moment for Luke but for Ben it was life altering. Snoke was already at work on Ben and Luke saw the darkness. I wish Luke would have said I saw Ben becoming Vader and I thought about killing him to protect the innocent, instead of I saw the darkness in him. In that moment Luke help creat Kylo. Luke had to live with the failure and the guilt. Luke had failed like Ben had, as all of the past Jedi did. To make it worse he had failed his sister and his best friend. Ben was sent to Luke with darkness already. Snoke was already involved and Leia thought look could save him. Luke was broken, he went from hero to failure in one moment. His life was forever changed. He stopped using the force and until Rey would not have returned to it. No one was upset that Ben was sent to kill Anakin but lots are upset that Luke thought about the same thing with regards to Ben solo.

Yoda and Ben hid for 20 years and let the galaxy go to hell. They did nothing to stop it. No one complains that Ben not fighting was out of his character but it was. I know he was protecting Luke. But would killing Vader and the Emperor have protected Luke way more than doing nothing. Luke acted no more out of character then Ben did. No one cared that Ben was sent to kill Vader not to redeem him but Luke having a moment of self doubt ruined the movie for way to many people. Luke was handled as the hero he always was. Rey and Yoda had to remind him and then he saved his friends. Ben did the same thing when he started to train Luke and Saverd Luke and his friends. Ben was redeemed in that moment for his failure as a Jedi and for not fighting sooner. Luke was redeemed in the same way. Yoda wanted Luke to not only teach how to use the force but to teach failure and humility. The old Jedi had become arrogant like the Sith. Luke failed and let’s hope Rey learns from Luke’s failures. Luke was well done.

I wanted Luke to be the same as he was when he was 20. I wanted to see a new Jedi order too but that was taken away by JJ and RJ had to figure it out. I remind myself that I’m not the same person today as I was when I was 20. RJ have Luke an incredible deep and human story arc without making him Old Ben.

 

I think it's also aimed at fans.
It's time to let the past go and look forward. We can't ever truly go forward tied down to old characters.
Let's be honest for a minute, Harrison, Mark and Carrie are/were all getting up there in age. And we are going through now with Carrie what we would have faced with potentially all three if they all made it out alive. The characters would have been given off screen deaths in official canon. look at how rough this is with Carrie. Imagine doing this with all three. It would have been brutal.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017 ---

I think he was the same Luke. Just, older and having been through hell in back. If he was still bright eyed and bushy tailed after as many personal trials and wars as he's been through, I'd likely assume he'd be a sociopath.
Luke came through in the end as only Luke could.

 

You are wrong. You can't accept that many people dislike the film, and therefore you use the argument "they are too dumb to understand it". Remember that a film critic, while still being a professional (hopefully), does not possess superior intelligence to other humans. They might know more about film editing, how the industry works, details about backstage stories, etc - But that's where their "advantages" end. It's not up to them do decide what resonates well with an audience. Their job is simply to give their opinion and advice you to see or not to see something.

Besides, TLJ is definitely not the sort of thought-provoking movie that some people think it is. It has shock value, yes - but since when does shock value equal masterpiece?

Please stop pretend that you know more about moviemaking and storytelling just because you liked a movie that critics loved and audiences disliked.