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The Reason Why Finn Can Wield A Lightsaber

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Cut In Two, Jan 11, 2016.

?

Would you consider this to be a strong argument?

Poll closed Jan 11, 2016.
  1. Yes, I think it is very sound

    4 vote(s)
    19.0%
  2. Yes, but I think there are one or two places where a weakness shines through

    4 vote(s)
    19.0%
  3. Yes, but it could be better as a few obvious weaknesses poke through

    1 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. I lean both ways

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  5. No, it skips over a few too many issues to be considered sound, but it has promise

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  6. No, there are glaring mistakes and inconsistencies, but it's still salvageable

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  7. No, I do not think this argument is sound whatsoever

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    Edit: watch these two videos. Notice how if you're not FS or trained in using one you'll probably kill yourself.

    Watch this first:


    Then watch the first minute of this:


    Then read about how lightsabers have not feedback here:
    http://www.pddnet.com/blog/2014/06/3-reasons-youd-kill-yourself-lightsaber

    Then watch the last 20 seconds of this:


    Now understand this:
    If you're not FS/trained with a saber (those who aren't FS can wield them in combat, but every single non-FS person we've seen wield one has been trained to use sabers), you're going to either chop off a limb or kill yourself. So for Finn to pick up a saber, without any prior training with using sabers, and not kill himself--far too lucky, kinda like... he is FS lucky if you see what I'm getting at.

    For a non-FS to use a lightsaber, they would need, "very specialized training." Finn doesn't have that "very specialized training," but eyyyy he's still alive and in one piece aint he? I mean that's almost force luc... wait I've already said that.
     
    #1 Cut In Two, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  2. DFF

    DFF Rebelscum

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    I assumed he could use a lightsaber because he had prior training with one.

    Recall that one of Ralph Mcquarrie's conceptual drawings showed Stormtroopers with white lightsabers.

    [​IMG]

    Which I thought would have been cooler to see the "traitor!" trooper use rather than that glorified cattle prod.
     
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  3. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Many people not Force Sensitive have wielded lightsabres. I an certainly see why people might think they are dangerous and difficult to use but that is not a case that its impossible. Just difficult.

    Cad Bane
    Grievous
    Pre Visla
    Recently in Star Wars #12 comic, Han, Leia, Chewie and I think Sansa Solo all used a sabre trying to rescue Luke from Graccas the Hutt.
     
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  4. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    I've seen this before, and (if I'm right, correct me if I'm wrong) it was just concept art from the mid 70's, and never had any implementation in the canon or EU. Also, as far as I am aware, I've never heard of any Stormtroopers using lightsabers--that's not to say that it didn't happen, I've just never seen it in the canon/EU. I've only seen it as concept art.
     
  5. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    The only issue with that is that it is simply concept art. There's no evidence to support that stormtroopers have trained with lightsabers.
    I do think, based of everyone's favorite TR8-0T, that they all get melee weapon training.
     
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  6. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    Cad Bane was trained with sabers
    Grievous was trained with sabers
    Pre Visla was trained with sabers

    As far as the comic goes: don't know, is that considered canon? I googled comic #12 but found varying results from different authors and different dates. Possible link?


    EDIT: found results, if Han wielded a light saber and didn't die/maim himself (same with Chewbacca), then they'd be in the .1% of the 99.9% of those who do.
     
    #6 Cut In Two, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  7. DFF

    DFF Rebelscum

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    Like Han in TESB. Using a light saber doesn't automatically equate to being force sensitive.

    Anymore than holding a katana sword makes someone a ninja.

    [​IMG]

    With the information we have from TFA, it's up in the air whether Finn is force sensitive or not.
     
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  8. Light Savior

    Light Savior Force Attuned

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    But i remember that when Maz give Luke LS to Finn he ask for a weapon and Maz tell him..."You have one already"...:).Looks to me he did not know what a LS is...(lightsaber).
     
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  9. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    [​IMG]
     

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  10. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    Right, but the fact that Finn is still in one piece/not dead, is evidence for him being force sensitive (for the reasons outlined above). I agree, it's not proof, but it is evidence towards him being force sensitive.
     
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  11. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    Hello and Welcome to the Cantina
     
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  12. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    how do i get room sirvice ? id like too order a meel .
     
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  13. audiosane

    audiosane Clone

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    I used to believe a non-Force sensitive person would automatically get maimed or killed in battle if they used a lightsaber, but I don't anymore because of this film. I think they just allowed Finn to hold his own a bit before Rey took over. Notice how Kylo Ren could've easily removed a limb or killed Finn at the end of their fight. However, because they didn't want to kill him off in the first film, Kylo simply decides to slice him in the back. That move felt a bit odd to me.

    TFA never established Finn as being Force sensitive or, more importantly, trained with the lightsaber. He really had no business using one in this film, as evidenced by him getting his butt kicked whenever he wielded one - twice. Disney's marketing, including the image of Finn looking badass with the lightsaber on TFA's poster, purposely used him as a red herring for Rey so that she could have her big reveal moment and look awesome with it by comparison.

    What bothers me even more is the fact that so many people are okay with that. Finn deserved better that the treatment he got in this film.
     
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  14. Pepsi

    Pepsi Rebel Trooper

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    Force sensitive or otherwise, neither of them should have been able to wield a lightsaber the way they did. I am more forgiving of Finn because the writers did not have the audacity to script a victory for him. But, Rey, my god...
     
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  15. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    I don't think you've gone meta enough with the issue, it goes much deeper than what many people think. As for the marketing, that wasn't a Disney thing, that was a JJ Abrams thing. JJ Abrams LOVES throwing curve balls that put other plot twists to shame, which is exactly why this could be an EVEN LARGER twist to make Finn a force sensitive.

    Finn killed several troopers with the saber, and no, just surviving a fight while using a saber without any training is a victory. If Finn was not force sensitive, the duel with Kylo would have been over in 2 or 3 seconds TOPS. Finn would have made a cut (swing), Ren would have blocked it then proceed to parry, but Finn is not force sensitive. Finn cannot feel where the position of the blade is, Finn misses the block because he cannot position the saber with speed or accuracy. Finn is dead or mortally wounded after a 1-2 second exchange, that's how fast it would have been.

    As I said in my OP, try my experiment--I guarantee you will end up '"dead" because you either have to focus on a blade you cannot feel, or forgot to focus on a blade you cannot feel and end up killing yourself. That's just in mock combat. Finn used a lightsaber IN REAL combat, and did not maim himself or die.

    I hate to make an appeal to authority here, but being trained in two different styles of combat (Kendo and German swordsmanship) I would never EVER touch a lightsaber--ever. The odds of you killing yourself just playing around with it are EXTREMELY high, let alone being in actual combat. Lightsabers to non-force sensitives are dangerous beyond any proportion, and the odds of a non-force sensitive using one in combat to any useful effect is virtually 0.
     
    #15 Cut In Two, Jan 11, 2016
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  16. Pepsi

    Pepsi Rebel Trooper

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    This is a rather coherent piece of commentary.

    I agree, Finn being force sensitive would better explain his ability to stay competitive against Kylo.

    I, however care far more about Rey's performance. You mentioned you had weapon training, and I'm sure you are aware that simply switching from a staff to a sword would be a considerable challenge. To make the switch with absolutely no preparation would be a nightmare, to do so in a fight for your well-being... But the switch she is making is not so pedestrian as that, she is switching to the most unique, specialized weapon in the Star Wars universe.

    The explanation seems to be the force, and I did not know the force is basically plot shield.
     
  17. Darth Daigo

    Darth Daigo Rebel Official

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    In the Before the Awakening book (which is canon), we read that Finn had received extensive combat training and that he was considered to be one of the most promising storm troopers.

    http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/swnn-review-star-wars-before-the-awakening-by-greg-rucka.html

    Besides his ability not to get killed when using a light saber, do you have any other support for the claim that Finn is force sensitive? Does he have force visions? Does he have the ability to do mind tricks? Et cetera.

    Here is the link to Star Wars #12 (which is canon too): http://www.hellocomic.com/star-wars/c12/p1
     
    #17 Darth Daigo, Jan 11, 2016
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  18. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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  19. harvywallbanger

    harvywallbanger Rebelscum

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    according to sam Jackson you have to be force sensitive to even turn on a lightsaber.

    Can someone get a ***** for this guy?

    IMG. REMOVED BY MOD
     
  20. Cut In Two

    Cut In Two Clone

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    Yeah, I know Finn had extensive combat training prior to his saber use (but like I also said, his prior training means nothing when the weapon he is using is unlike anything he's ever handled). As far as any more evidence being directly from me? No, I don't think so, so I'll just repeat a few things:

    Kylo senses Finn ------> DELETED SCRIPT, OR SCRIPT THAT NEVER MADE IT INTO THE MOVIE cannot be brought to the table against this argument. As the movie frames it, the viewer is led to believe that Kylo senses something in Finn on Jakku. Kylo knows the exact protocol number of Finn when captain Phasma is talking about him. Finn and Rey work harmoniously together inside of the falcon on Jakku. They are both awestruck by what they had both accomplished: Rey with piloting, and Finn making an extremely impressive shot. In the novel adaptation, Maz looks at Finn and says that she sees a warrior, and hands him the saber confident in his abilities to use it.

    Here's a link to some other stuff that I won't address here, but is said in the article: http://www.themarysue.com/force-sensitivity-debate/


    PS: Finn survived two light saber encounters, that's already really impressive evidence pointing towards Finn being force sensitive. Am I sure that Finn is force sensitive? Absolutely not, but I think it's likely that he is. If someone demanded a percentage confidence rate from me, I would say that I am 70-75% confident that Finn is force sensitive.
     
    #20 Cut In Two, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
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