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The Redemption of Ben Solo: Does it Work?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Adam812, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Tros felt rushed in every way, imo. That's
    why I find it hard to read anything into this.
     
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  2. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel Official

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    I think it works, but by a hanging thread. Prior to the release of the movie, I struggled to see how they would redeem him, after he seemingly "doubled down" on his own path after Rey tried to turn him back in TLJ.

    The execution of it in TROS feels a little rushed in the movie itself (from the fight on the death star wreckage to the final showdown with Palpatine). But it works for me because of how insecure he has been about his aliegences over the course of the trilogy as a whole. A part of him clearly wants to go home in TFA, and he refuses to blow up Leia in TLJ. I don't think they could have made it work without bringing in Harrison Ford, like they did. But fortunately, it works for me in the movie.
     
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  3. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel Commander

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    He to got a nice send off. Though part of me wishes that things had gone differently.


    I thought that he was going to turn in 9. Two things surprised me in TLJ, one was the fact that Rey's trauma at being abandoned wasn't being swept under the rug or her turned into a stoic Mary Sue. And the whole Reylo thing. The way that he spoke to her (before the denouement on Snoke's ship) really suprised me, he was for the most polite and respectful. He was direct but never mean. It was as if he genuinely respected her. And when I saw that, I realized that there was far more to the character.



    Ben had to die for political purposes. Disney films have always been about righting wrongs. And there is no way on earth that Ben could live after what he did. It's really hard to excuse him as being 'manipulated' when other characters have gone through worse. To have allowed him to live would almost make it seem as if Disney is rewarding a bully.

    What might have saved him is if 1. they had given us a flash back of Snoke telling him that the only way he could be powerful is to kill his father and 2. if they had split 9 into two movies. Say Rey turned to the dark and Ben had to save her in the next film. And he would have been brought back a hero.

    That being said, the fact that we saw no force ghosts at the end of TROS gives me hope that he'll be brought back in some capacity.
     
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  4. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    I think it depends greatly on what you mean by "manipulated."
    The way I see, his whole life training under Snoke (and by proxy, Palpatine) was entirely manipulation. He is still held responsible for his actions, absolutely, but those actions are the direct result of being brain washed, lied to, and abused.
    Snoke didn't need to say "Hey, go kill your dad. It will make you stronger" because that was what he was teaching Kylo Ren from the beginning. The manipulation started a long time before the events of TFA.

    What I wanted to see was Ben live with his consequences. I wanted to see him realize his guilt and the atrocities he had committed, and the only way for him to escape that pain was to set right what he made wrong. Killing him was the cheap and easy solution for him not paying back his debts, and it repeats Vader's redemption which feels gimmicky and lazy.
     
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  5. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel Commander

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    I understand what you are saying. But I don't see Ben being the lone gun/Samurai Jedi Knight who wanders from town to town paying penance for his crimes by setting wrong right. I also don't like the prison option. Not for punishment reasons, but because it makes it too hard for him to be used in a potential future story. Call me biased, but having him in a story without Rey just doesn't seem as interesting ditto with him as a senior citizen ex con.

    Further it just seems to hard for all that to have been addressed in a 2.5 hour film. I can't speak to the Vader thing, because from I am not that familiar with the character. But from what I do remember and having watched him in the PT, I just felt nothing for the character. He was just a bully/thug who had a change of heart at the end of his life because of the life he wasted. Whereas Ben came across as a guy who was so weighed down by guilt and shame, for past misdeeds. So he just kept 'digging a hole' because he thought that no one would want anything else to do with him and Snoke & TFO is all he had.
     
    #25 Veronica, Sep 23, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  6. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    I don't think prison would have worked well at all either. The only way that would work is if Ben was released at some point for future stories, but that's just rather silly.

    I agree with your assessment on Vader, though honestly I think Anakin was originally more noble in some of the early ideas Lucas was working on, but what we got to the PT... he was just an unsympathetic brat. But watching the OT disconnected from what we see of Anakin in the PT, I still think the story works. And Ben was a much more rounded character in the sense that we understand his struggles, and are rooting for his redemption.

    At the end of the day, I think Ben would have worked well as a Samurai sort of character and it could have worked in TROS. We don't really need to be told that is what he is doing. I think the best ending for TROS would have been Ben burying the lightsabers with Rey, and then we walks off into the sunset. We the setting suns resting on the new heroes, and the ghosts of Luke and Leia have passed on their legacies to their child/adopted kid(/daughter in law? I dunno).
    Ben's story is now left to our imaginations, much like Rey's and the others.
    But, I can understand why you don't like that idea or can't see it.
     
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  7. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    I would have loved if they'd let Leia survive and go into exaile (on Ahch-to?) with Ben. Redemption would still have worked with the Han vision alone.
     
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  8. RockyRoadHux

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    Why Leia? Why not Rey? He's grown man, and Rey made it clear that she gladly would have taken Ben's hand, in other words she would stood by him no matter what and the kiss indicated that there were romantic feelings too.
     
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  9. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    Because he needs to reconcile with his mother and I don't want to have Rey in exile, I'm fine with her visiting him from time to time. And she's going to be a Jedi, so no attachment :eek:
    There has to be some sort of consequences for his wrong doing.
    If living on a beautiful Island with the woman you love is the consequence of being an a$$ for half of your life...
     
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  10. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    That doesn't mean they have to spend the rest of their lives together on an island xD

    Still holding on to that ancient religion?

    I hate to break it to you, but that's what Rey said- she wanted to take his hand. She would have been willing to stand by him.

    It's about what the character wanted and not what you, the viewer wanted for her.
     
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  11. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Him being a mother's boy was one the reason he turned to the dark side in the first place. Haha!

    This. Alot of people didn't want Kylo to be redeemed because of personal reasons. But Han, Leia, Luke and Rey all wanted him back. The audience should always want what the heroes want, at least as long as its written correctly.
     
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  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    The Jedi ways is what got them destroyed in the first place. We're talking Star Wars rules... real world consequences don't always apply. *Looks at Vader*
     
    #32 Andrew Waples, Sep 24, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  13. Meister Yoda

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    That's why he is alowed to watch twice as much sunsets as anybody else on a beautiful isle with his mom and not send into prison or to the scaffold.
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    But why with his mom? Doesn't almost every mother want their boy to get a girl (or partner) and live on their own?
     
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  15. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    Because Luke is dead, but I'm sure he will pop up for a visit.
     
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  16. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    [​IMG]

    I think we're talking past one another...
     
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  17. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    I know my mom does. :p
     
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  18. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    I'd definitely turn to the dark side if I was forced to live in a deserted planet alone w/ my mother.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2020 ---
    Back in the day a friend's mother asked him when he was going to meet a girl and move out.
    He replied, "mom am gay".
    Conversation ended right there.

    PS- he was kidding.
     
  19. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi Commander

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    The thing I loved about The Last Jedi was the sexual tension between Ben and Rey. She loves him. She hates him. She wants him. She wants him dead. She reaches out to take his hand via Force Skype. She shoots him via Force Skype. #it's_complicated

    After that build-up there simply had to be a resolution in Rise of Skywalker. Either Rey had to join Kylo or Ben had to join Rey, but something had to bring them together. They were the cure to each other's loneliness, if only they could quit trying to skewer each other with lightsabers long enough to Netflix and chill.

    When they finally kissed in the Sith coliseum Ben's arc was complete. He got the girl, she got the boy, no point in prolonging it after that. It was a good place for his story to end.
     
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  20. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    TROS was rushed, at least I think most of us believe that it was. I think if his arc had gone the 6 episodes I originally assumed (mostly based on JJ's initial comments about Kylo) that the ST was the end of the OT, but the introduction to the next trilogy. None of the characters arcs were finished (IMO) by a long shot. Even now none of them feel complete (to me).

    And it's why Ben's redemption doesn't feel complete. It feels more like a Joffrey Baratheon death instead of a Stannis Baratheon death. It feels like at this young age, he should be able to turn things around; death shouldn't be the conclusion this early. Of course that may be Anakin's arc coloring my perspective. I just would much rather have seen an older, and perhaps jaded Kylo, turn because the weight of the years of his actions finally catch up with him his conscience he can't deny who he is (or wants to be) fundamentally. This part of the story could have been so much more for all the characters (IMO)
     
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