1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

HUMOR The ReyLo theory is dead!! Long live the Renporer!!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jedihopper, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    5,567
    Credits:
    1,603
    Ratings:
    +2,263 / 22 / -18
    I wonder what the Jane Austen fandom was like 200 years ago.

    Darcy/Elizabeth vs Elizabeth/Wickham ship wars over tea! And fandom meet ups in fancy rooms where they discuss each scene in every novel and argue about it like we are now. :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,850
    Likes Received:
    5,130
    Trophy Points:
    15,602
    Credits:
    11,215
    Ratings:
    +8,828 / 161 / -53
    Alt Shift X is probably the best example of a "theorist" that doesn't bombard or flood the fandom with content. Good choice ;)

    I'm finding more and more of star wars fandom is becoming "you should believe this theory because XYZ" and "TLJ is bad because theory XYZ didn't pan out"

    whereas someone like Alt Shift X is more along the lines of "this is a theory i've thought about and find interesting".

    I've noticed it a lot after TLJ, especially with snoke and the Reylo stuff. The tone of some social media posts about "what snoke should've been" or "Reylo is real and all my hype for IX depends on Reylo". This makes me think back to all these rabid theorists trying to hook people with their theories or fanatical tumblr posters that dedicate their existence to this theory.

    I think the best star war "theorist" we have is that Star Wars explained bloke. I'd say is the Alt Shift X of star wars :D

    My hope moving forward that that theorising about Reylo/Renporer etc etc remains, but is massive toned down to a point where people aren't going to have breakdowns because X theory was destroyed.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  3. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Posts:
    700
    Likes Received:
    2,550
    Trophy Points:
    9,242
    Credits:
    2,556
    Ratings:
    +3,783 / 31 / -37
    The Boston Tea Party was the result of a ship war pass it along. :p
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2017 ---
    It's hilarious seeing grown ass adults with 2 kids and a wife acting like 15-year-olds who've had their playstations taken away.
     
    #83 LilyInTheSkywalker, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    5,567
    Credits:
    1,603
    Ratings:
    +2,263 / 22 / -18
    I'm really open to anything if it well written (stares at GOT s7 and backs away). If they wanna do evil un-redeemable Renperor but pace it well and at least address his dynamic with Rey in TLJ, I can buy it.

    There will always be rabid Tumblr posts about everything, like the people who pointed to GL directing a crappy animated film the year after he sold SW, where a fairy falls in love with a troll, as evidence for Reylo. Just WTF . But the shipping wars and theories for SW are gonna ramp up bad, rabid Reylo's will take force bond scene as 100% proof of their ship with a "HOW DARE YOU ATTITUDE" if you try to speak up against them with logic, while people who don't believe in Reylo will point to the final scene in TLJ between them as 100% proof it won't happen with an ""U SUPPORT ABUSIVE ROMANCE AND 100% VILLAIN BEING HAPPY" (ignoring Kylo has nuance and humanity) if you argue against them.

    I've been in fandoms before (Last airbender and Legend of Korra) and it's going to go this way and get worse. No toning down.

    It's already happening.
     
  5. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Posts:
    700
    Likes Received:
    2,550
    Trophy Points:
    9,242
    Credits:
    2,556
    Ratings:
    +3,783 / 31 / -37
    I kinda empathise with Luke, cuz I too want to maroon myself on some island without internet access. :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Gold

    Gold Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    707
    Credits:
    455
    Ratings:
    +88 / 13 / -39
    I always thought Rey was Palpatine's grand daughter. Why else would she "go straight to the dark side"?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    5,567
    Credits:
    1,603
    Ratings:
    +2,263 / 22 / -18
    Believe me, that is looking attractive for me too. I don't wanna live through another fandom breakdown after Korra and Airbender. It scarred me, what people said to eachother over a ship becoming canon in the last episode of Korra's last season.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2017 ---
    I don't think Palpatine ever "did" it with anyone.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Posts:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    8,396
    Trophy Points:
    86,942
    Credits:
    7,312
    Ratings:
    +11,015 / 56 / -13
    Yeah, all before he shunned her to become Supreme Leader. Also before he ordered her blown out of the sky and promised to destroy her. You are also ignoring the MASSIVE abusive relationship angle.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2017 ---
    My bad. I guess that "healthy" was the wrong word. It's downright ABUSIVE, which neither of the relationships you listed were, save for Anakin's and Padme's in which was ended when Anakin became what Kylo has done/is doing.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    5,567
    Credits:
    1,603
    Ratings:
    +2,263 / 22 / -18
    1.supreme leader thing-he did that because he was traumatized into thinking that physically killing the past is the best way to deal with it. He’s never learned how to deal with it healthily thanks to Snoke breathing down his neck all his life. He took the position because he thought his mother was dead and it best allowed him to destroy her resistance and re create the galaxy without the mistakes of the past, deaths of innocents be damned.

    The first thing he does is make a genuine albeit manipulative offer to Rey to join him. He could’ve just taken her by suprise and knocked her out, but instead gave her the same chance she gave him. They’d been relating to eachother all movie, and he knows the past has failed her to with her parents so he’d thought he stood a chance in her joining him. It’s why his “please” is so harrowed, he doesn’t want to kill her or be alone.

    2. Blown out of the sky-This is him being an immature idiot and dealing with her rejection the only way he knows how. It was also the falcon and she was reminding him he couldn’t kill the past as much as he tried too on crait. When he says destroy her he sounds divided and unsure.

    3.abusive relationship-true, to an extent. He himself has been in an abusive relatinship for years under Snokes influence (see first throne room scene in movie) and has never learned himself how a healthy relationship works. However he genuinely cares for Rey in their force bond scenes and comes to relate to her loneliness and issues with the past, even saying “she isn’t alone”. He wasn’t lying because he expected her to cave and join him in the throne room scene when Snoke is alive (that’s why he doesn’t intervene in her torture despite her yelling at him to act on his conflicted feelings-he isn’t a pure character, he has serious but explainable flaws.) and Snoke revealing that he orchestrated the force bond seals his death warrant for a reason. It’s manipulation that hits a little roo close to home.

    There.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Posts:
    21,472
    Likes Received:
    101,298
    Trophy Points:
    176,317
    Credits:
    46,888
    Ratings:
    +115,067 / 340 / -131
    It seems so, when she closed the falcon door that closed that hope. Next time they meet, one will fall for sure.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    5,567
    Credits:
    1,603
    Ratings:
    +2,263 / 22 / -18
    We can’t know until IX comes out and disproves it. It’s 50/50. JJ can go in whatever direction he wants, either save/end him.

    Lots of people in the two years after TFA thought Reylo wouldn’t even be hinted at, then we got a force bond in TLJ. The redeem Ben crowd could be right like them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. nagajuna

    nagajuna Clone

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Posts:
    47
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Credits:
    366
    Ratings:
    +57 / 6 / -7
    She family zoned Kylo ren
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Posts:
    21,472
    Likes Received:
    101,298
    Trophy Points:
    176,317
    Credits:
    46,888
    Ratings:
    +115,067 / 340 / -131
    She wanted redemption, he went for the power grab. The bond was staged by Snoke & she tried to turn him away but that was the one chance, we'll if they have anymore force talk.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  14. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Posts:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,434
    Trophy Points:
    5,567
    Credits:
    1,603
    Ratings:
    +2,263 / 22 / -18
    Maybe she really is his sister after all then lol.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2017 ---
    Kylo has to want to change and be redeemed before anyone else has a hope of reaching him. And we get Ben back.

    He could still do that in IX if JJ decides to follow up on the bond plotline.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Posts:
    376
    Likes Received:
    775
    Trophy Points:
    5,872
    Credits:
    1,388
    Ratings:
    +2,695 / 23 / -23
    No. Any theory on Rey is dead. She is a nobody. The Dark Side cave tells us this. The force connection tells us this. SHE tells us this.

    Rey, is a strong, independent junk trader, and Force bless us she is!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,295
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,679
    Ratings:
    +19,243 / 799 / -292
    People need to think about this logically. Not emotionally.

    Rey is the hero of this trilogy. She will constantly face and have to overcome the dark side. Closing the Falcon door on Ren at the end of TLJ certainly doesn’t mean she has done it forever. “She isn’t a Jedi yet...”.

    In TESB, Luke rejected joining Vader. He rejected the Dark Side as Rey did with Ren. But as we enter ROTJ, Luke is skirting close to the dark side and the film is held together by the tension of him either becoming a Jedi or the new Vader. It will be the same for Rey - her hero journey is not over.

    And so what is it that could pull Rey to the Dark Side? She has all but accepted that she is a no one and her parents are not coming back - and were awful people who didn’t love her. She is surrounded by a new family - Leia, Finn, Poe etc. She felt that Luke’s passing was joyous and peaceful - she hasn’t any anger about that nor Han’s death anymore. She forgave Ren for what he did in TFA.

    The only thing left (that is visible now) that could pull Rey to the Dark Side is her relationship with Ren. The connection is not dead and it will weigh heavy on her. My view is that she’ll take Rose’s view that killing ones enemy isn’t as important as saving the ones you love. And she loves Ben as he loves her.

    I believe that the next film will be set a few years ahead and we might see Rey and Poe getting closer. But Rey will realise that the only person who really knows her and is her equal is Ben - and that he is the key to bringing peace. At the same time, considering his power and what we saw with Vader, Ren either faces death or redemption. If it is the latter, which I suspect it will be, his feelings for Rey will be paramount.

    On that basis, ReyLo is far from dead. It will play a vital role in IX - but right now it is impossible to predict.

    Ps. Ren has to save himself but right now I’d bet a great deal of credits on Anakin speaking to him
    and using his relationship with Padme as a means of persuasion...
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  17. Sal

    Sal Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Posts:
    53
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Credits:
    386
    Ratings:
    +124 / 7 / -4
    Yeah.... Kylo rey is more than just 'unhealthy'. Hans behavior was what we call 'problematic' (don't let tumblr culture make you tune out at this word)- but Kylo is outright abusive.

    I honestly will never forgive Disney, LFL or whoever if a full blown romance happens. For a number of reasons.

    1. I'm sick and tired of every female character being shoe horned into a romance. Its like we are not allowed to exist outside of those plot lines. People are telling me Ep9 is set up for a Kylo-Finn-Poe-Rey thing has me cringing so hard-- why are female characters not allowed FRIENDS? Finn and Reys friendship is lovely. Its refreshing to see a male-female friendship like that.

    I hate that female charcters get shipped with everyone they blink at. Its like when a young female appears on screen, everyones immediate response is to think "who will she end up with?!" and place all emphasis and importance on it over everything else. Its sad.

    When the trilogy started me and my friends had these conversations. Praying to the cosmos that they wouldn't take this female lead and reduce her to a romance, or a plot tool for a males character development. Because it happens too often. After TFA we so happy- "Are they actually letting a female character get on with her destiny and having the emphasis be on that? This is great!" "Its looking like romance won't be a plot point for Rey- are you kidding? I cant believe it? Finally! This is so great!" "Is Reys hero's journey being given the same level of respect as Lukes? Colour me surprised. So happy." etc

    We all came out of TLJ loving the movie, but being a little sad. One (male) friend even said "They just had to didnt they. hopefully its over with. It will make me so sour about her character."

    2. The message it sends is terrible. Kylo physically tortured Rey. He leered over her while she was restrained declaring he could take what ever he wanted. (Im not saying that was sexual abuse- but it was mental abuse and had gross overtones- that at the time I thought were deliberately invoked by JJ). He negged her about her being a 'nobody' (if he wasn't negging he would have said "Just because of who your parents are doesnt mean you are nobody. You are somebody. Especially to me." Instead he said "YOU ARE NOBODY. But its ok I like you anyway". Its classic abusive manipulative stuff.)

    Not to mention all the killing yadda yadda. To have Rey start a romance with him is nothing short of disgusting and exactly the sort of thing women have been drawing attention to for a very long time, about how women are written, characterized and treated in media. This is exactly the sort f thing we've been talking about. To glorify that sort of behavior as 'romantic', and have the female character fall him even after those things is so frustrating I cant articulate my irritation.

    3. It would make lose respect for Rey, as a character. And I really like her.
    [[I make very little money (actually I'm unemployed as of 2 months ago), and I still scraped and saved $200 dollars for a Rey figure- because I loved her that much and was so excited to finally see a female lead in SW that was just propped up to be a badass Jedi getting on with her destiny and having an interesting story about her power. Sigh.]]

    I couldnt be so enamored with her character if she went to Kylo.

    4. The idea that its 'needed' she get with Kylo to continue the Skywalker lineage. Right. So as well as everything else, her whole point is to be a womb for the series. No thank you.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Clouded Clouded x 3
  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,358
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,837
    Ratings:
    +157,681 / 65 / -7
    your frustrations are understandable, and i know a lot of people feel this way.
    but a lot of people also feel like pigeonholing Ben into the role of abuser is too broad a stroke.
    and this is a great opportunity to be having this conversation with our children.

    Ben himself is the product of growing up feeling unloved and unwanted.
    everything he says to Rey is a projection of himself (including "you are nobody").
    he has zero self-worth, so of course he's in no position to be a partner to anybody.
    and his behavior is appalling because he doesn't know how to trust or share himself with others.

    Rey's empathy for him doesn't diminish her, doesn't send a negative message.
    she never accepts Ben's garbage and she won't let him hurt her.
    that's the important thing that a lot of people seem to skip over.
    yes, she is very naive in TLJ to think that she can turn him around.
    there's your cautionary.

    but she will never be wrong to treat him with respect and gentleness and the dignity he's been denied for so long.
    most especially if he can get himself under control and start to recover from the trauma he's been through.

    it's not Rey's job to fix him, but she's a good person to be there if and when he can finally ask for the help he needs.
    she understands his loneliness and fear and frustration in ways no one else can.

    they don't need to be a romantic couple (and to be honest, i still think they won't), but we do need more love in the world.
    more understanding, more empathy, and more compassion.
    and what an amazing model Rey can be for those critical graces in our current times.

    p.s. welcome to the Cantina! : D
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  19. Sal

    Sal Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Posts:
    53
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Credits:
    386
    Ratings:
    +124 / 7 / -4
    I think his charcter is indeed more complicated. Im not suggesting he is an abuser and nothing else- but that in the context of his treatment of Rey he is abusive.
    Ditto Rey being empathetic. I have no issue with that. In fact, it fits with her charcter and makes her endearing. She really does want to see the best in people- and can understand a lot of what he's going through, especially with regards to feeling like you are someone, or nobody, or have to live up to something. I like all that. But an out and out romance is my problem where a line would be crossed in terms of believable character, and the other things I mentioned.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  20. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,358
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,837
    Ratings:
    +157,681 / 65 / -7
    i think a lot of that has to do with how it plays out though.
    i have to see it before i can judge it.

    but i can see possibilities.
    he has a lot of growing to do and now that he's Supreme Leader he's going to have to do it.
    there's no Snoke making his decisions for him anymore.
    it's not too late for him to understand that he can choose his own destiny.
    and it doesn't have to be a destiny in which he destroys everything to find peace.

    someone else mentioned in another thread that he's noticeably calm with her (up until the throne scene).
    but he's more focused. he's hopeful. he wants to connect with her however bad he is at it.

    again, the romance to me is neither here nor there.
    i honestly think it will end with them being friends, allowing the audience to imagine the path ahead for themselves.
    ultimately, i don't find anything wrong with her loving him if he repents and begins to make reparations.
     
    • Like Like x 3
Loading...

Share This Page