HUMOR The ReyLo theory is dead!! Long live the Renporer!!

I actually doubt Ben would listen to Anakin. He's caught in an echo chamber. Anakin could berate or humiliate Ben, but that could just as easily set Ben even further down the dark side. Anakin couldn't reason with him. Darth Vader, not Anakin Skywalker, is Ben's idol. For all we know Ben hates Anakin for returning. Or not. I don't know.

I saw the movie again though and Ben has obvious remorseful puppy eyes when looking at Rey. I like the whole theme that Ben has to create his own redemption. (He couldn't take the redemption Rey offered. He wasn't ready. Too much rage. Too much trauma. Etc. Besides, would the Resistance or Luke even accept him? Anakin Skywalker was blessed by circumstance with a hero's death that escapes the "what now" question)

 

Indeed he does!

I like that too. It would be really interesting to see something like this in episode 9.

 

I just had a thought. Two years ago post TFA, I'd thought Reylo or a force bond would never happen (Disney would never go near it because of controversy). Then TLJ came along and it did happen after a two year wait of me thinking not.

Maybe all the people in this thread saying "Reylo is dead" and "IX won't happen because of abhsive angle etc) are falling into the same trap I did. Whatever we say and argue, Disney ain't gonna change anything because of "controversy".

They could very well (despite claims of bad writing and supporting abuse if they do) just go ahead and reference it and even make it canon. Despite the door slam at the end of TLJ being "final" to some people that she's putting her back on Kylo, and he's gone "full evil" and getting no redemption. Disney could easily say "no" and do full redemption and a six minute make out scene between the two of them.

We've been wrong before guys, we could be wrong again.

 

This scares me because it might just happen. He might redeem himself and die for Rey. That's what popped up in my mind and the scary image of the Reylo fangirls going nuts.

 

Needed to be said, and you said it well!

I'm hoping for anything but death redemption. It's boring and unoriginal after Vader's classic take. What I'm hoping for is an exile/life imprisonment redeemed Ben, with no Reylo.

 

That would be an interesting redemption to see for sure! He would have all his titles stripped and start anew.

Or maybe he's not redeemable at all, and the resistance is completely wiped out in the next episode. Rey dies fighting for what she believes in and Kylo lives on creating a much larger FO, completes his training, gains an apprentice and it all starts over from there until the new generation of Jedi come about.

 

Yeah. He would become like a monk, or his namesake, Obiwan. Living alone in a simple life with no purpose but his own.

I'd hate that ending. Only worse one I can think of is it being all a dream. Like Ben wakes up at Luke's Jedi academy and says "boy those beans I ate for dinner last night sure gave me a weird dream! I'm so happy I'm on the light side."

 

I think Reylo is as dead as Rey Solo.

First not everyone who was against ReyLo was in favor of Rey Solo I liked the idea I held out hope I hated ReyLo because it looked like an abusive relationship if it was a relationship in TFA.

Now I think it was clear that ReyLo was a flashing foolish notion not unlike expecting the Legendary Luke Skywalker to have lightening strike twice and by showing up for Kylo he would turn good just like Vader. Then when Luke won't fly off on your own to confront Kylo face him down. Sure there was more energy between them in TLJ and clearly they played up the attraction and yes it still felt wrong. But Kylo proved to be exactly what I thought having no idea what Love is. Just as in TFA he would take what he wanted. He offers to define Rey on his terms. "You matter to me." in other words you don't matter but I will make you matter when what . .. . when we rule the galaxy together. You know like all Sith masters offer to the apprentice they intend to drain dry and use.

Even chief ReyLo apologist @master_shaitan sees ReyLo as a cautionary tale.

Renperor!!!!

 

But if Ben returns...if...then #ReyBenForever

 

I just had a thought. Two years ago post TFA, I'd thought Reylo or a force bond would never happen (Disney would never go near it because of controversy). Then TLJ came along and it did happen after a two year wait of me thinking not.

Maybe all the people in this thread saying "Reylo is dead" and "IX won't happen because of abhsive angle etc) are falling into the same trap I did. Whatever we say and argue, Disney ain't gonna change anything because of "controversy".

They could very well (despite claims of bad writing and supporting abuse if they do) just go ahead and reference it and even make it canon. Despite the door slam at the end of TLJ being "final" to some people that she's putting her back on Kylo, and he's gone "full evil" and getting no redemption. Disney could easily say "no" and do full redemption and a six minute make out scene between the two of them.

We've been wrong before guys, we could be wrong again.

#143Withred, Today at 10:53 AM

Imma keep pasting this every time someone says Reylo is dead. Too lazy to edit it.

 

I'm not exactly sure everyone's definitions of ReyLo line up.

I think the speech that Kylo Ren gives Rey about her family, where he says she's no one but not to him. is a genuine moment. I feel like certain people are still stuck in the past about red lightsabers=pure evil thing. They assume he is lying in order to gain power but I don't see that he ever did lie to her.
Kylo Ren is evil, and a monster by his own admission but he isn't without compassion, he has it for his mother, who he chooses not to kill. and he has it for Rey. Rian has said that as far as Kylo Ren is concerned the things he said to Rey about her parents were completely genuine and true. This could be re-written by JJ. it could be. but at this point in time Her parent's are nobody and Kylo Ren's lines to her about them and the fact he does actually care about her are true, at least in the mind of the author and director of this move.

So, from that point of view, and with the knowledge that a 'force bond' still links Rey-Ben they will have a relationship going forward, and I don't think it is as simple as purely enemies....because if it was, then what is going to happen for the two and a half run time that IX will probably have? there are no OT cast members to play with (except ghost luke) and there is no other important enemy except Kylo Ren. so its very likely the final conflict will be between Rey and Kylo....and how do you build tension and stakes for such a conflict without interaction between them? I just think its logical at this point to spin out the notion that they are both conflicted about their loyalties and connection to one other. This is one of the last remaining ways to build a conflict in the movie we care about.

If Ren is just evil and Rey is just opposed to him then there is no tension in the movie, or not between those two characters anyway. so I just think people need to consider how to build a compelling arc for both Ren and Rey in the next film. without some doubt and more of the: will they/wont they, then there isn't much character tension or stakes in my mind. The only thing that makes a lightsaber fight matter is what is at risk, its the emotional heft of it that makes us care. that's why the ESB duel is better that the AOTC duel. because of the heart involved. for that reason alone I think there will be more Reylo teasing, though I don't think it will ever play out.

 

My guess is whether he turns good or not. He will still die due to his actions. Meaning he might rethink things before the end but the end will still come. That's my current speculation. Which is one of the things I have thought well before TLJ. I could be wrong.

If they do fall for each other . . . DP can do the wedding.

Maybe but subverting fans twice with the same rope a dope might get tired.

Reylo is the new Finn with a Lightsabre.

 

Very well put together. Like Danganronpa you've just made a truth bullet pierce a false statement!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---

I just had a thought. Two years ago post TFA, I'd thought Reylo or a force bond would never happen (Disney would never go near it because of controversy). Then TLJ came along and it did happen after a two year wait of me thinking not.

Maybe all the people in this thread saying "Reylo is dead" and "IX won't happen because of abhsive angle etc) are falling into the same trap I did. Whatever we say and argue, Disney ain't gonna change anything because of "controversy".

They could very well (despite claims of bad writing and supporting abuse if they do) just go ahead and reference it and even make it canon. Despite the door slam at the end of TLJ being "final" to some people that she's putting her back on Kylo, and he's gone "full evil" and getting no redemption. Disney could easily say "no" and do full redemption and a six minute make out scene between the two of them.

We've been wrong before guys, we could be wrong again.

#143Withred, Today at 10:53 AM

 

I think he wants her to really join him but only on the Darkside. I also found it telling that the perhaps akward way he spoke to her he presented himself as the one that could give her an identity. The dark coralary to "you matter to me" is you don't matter anywhere else, your not signifcant to the Force or anyone else.

 

He meant it as a piercing but honest truth. Like a truth bullet.

 

Yes absolutely. he's a monster and a dark side-er quite surely. I don't think Kylo Ren will get the girl, I'm not even certain at this point he'll get redemption but I think he honestly wanted her by his side while he ruled the galaxy because he likes her, and sees her as a peer. He clearly doesn't like hux or have any other friends. so it seems they are linked by mutual feelings of isolation and I can't see how that won't drive the next film forward in relation to Rey/Ren

 

I agree with this reading of their dynamic.

 

Just some Reylo/BenRey things to think about...



^Kylo/Ben does not look happy when Rey is getting tortured.



^Self-explanatory



^Also self-explanatory.



^Interesting, Mark. Very interesting.



^This was from a recent Rian Johnson interview. Yes, he’s talking about the “parent reveal/you’re nothing” scene. I think some people think the way Rian worded some of that makes it seem like there’s still a possibility Rey isn’t a nobody. Keep in mind, there was an article released a month or two before TLJ came out that said Rian discussed Rey’s parents with JJ but ultimately went with JJ’s original idea, which he told Daisy when they were shooting TFA. So, I’d assume the original idea was Rey being a nobody and I believe that. I think Rey is definitely a nobody and that’s not going to change.



^And this post is really great too. Obviously that is just someone’s take on everything but I feel like it makes a lot of sense.


One thing I want to mention about the whole “Reylo is an abusive relationship”... Rey and Kylo/Ben weren’t in a relationship in TFA and I don’t consider them to be in a relationship in TLJ. So I don’t think it makes sense to say it’s an abusive relationship when they don’t even have one. At least, not a romantic one. The kind of relationship they do have in TFA is a typical “we’re on opposing sides. You’re my enemy.” relationship. Since Kylo represents the bad guys/dark side of course he’s going to torture his enemies. But it’s so very obvious he went easy on Rey compared to what he did to Poe. I’d even say he tortures her a bit begrudgingly. Not mention in the novelization it says Ben had compassion for Rey and that he “admires” her. The novel also hints at Ben not really wanting to torture Rey. We also know that compassion is essentially “unconditional love”, as defined by good ‘ol Anakin Skywalker. Speaking of Anakin, I think everyone, whether you ship Anidala or not, can agree that Anakin definitely acted creepy around Padme. He was also definitely obsessed with her, just like Kylo/Ben is with Rey. Yet I see no one up in arms over Anakin and Padme’s relationship. Just the possibility of Rey and Kylo/Ben being in one.

Another thing to mention is that Kylo/Ben has Skywalker blood in him. So, he’s not going to be good with/around women. I bet he didn’t have a ton of time for love/relationships when he was training to be a Jedi and he definitely had no time after he destroyed the temple and became Kylo Ren. Obviously, all of Snoke’s manipulation and mental (and possibly physical) torture and abuse didn’t help with any of that. Kylo, or rather Ben, was Snoke’s slave. Snoke abused Ben and manipulated him his entire life. Ben already felt alone and like crap because he felt as if his parents just abandoned him. Snoke used that to destroy Ben and to create Kylo. But Ben never fully left. There’s still good in him. He can still be saved (just like Anakin). It’s obvious Rey wants to save him in TLJ. Whether she still wants to after she shuts the door on him at the end of the movie is debatable but Carrie Fisher described Rey as “very forgiving” so I think Rey will definitely forgive Kylo/Ben for everything he did in TLJ and try to save Ben and bring him back to the light in Episode 9. I also feel like it’s obvious after Rey shuts the door that Kylo’s inner Ben was starting to resurface in him. The look he had on his face said “what have I done? I really screwed up.”

So, yeah. I just wanted to say all of that. But like, if I thought Reylo was actually an abusive relationship, I wouldn’t support it. Just thought I should mention that too.

But like, let’s not forget that Rey is the one who gave Kylo his scar. So... it’s not like she didn’t do any harm to him. She kicked his emo butt.

 

How exactly is ReyLo dead?

The bond is still in place.

Kylo still cares for Rey. He had the chance to act upon his promise to Luke. He could kill her in the last scene. But he doesn't. He watches he close the door on him and fly away. He does what Rey does in the last movie and in the previous scene.

Rey still cares for Ben (not Kylo). She could have killed him. She woke up before he did. They were alone in a room littered with lethal weapons and what does she do? She takes the two halves of the lightsaber and leaves.

And their faces aren't those of opponents but betrayed and broke hearted people. They both believe that the other person belongs with them and yet they both cannot let go of their affiliations.
Rey will never and should never abandon her friends in the Resistance.
Kylo doesn't have any loyalty to the FO but he doesn't have any reason to join the Resistance either. He still believes that Luke tried to kill him. He's just barely broken from a lifetime of manipulation. He's been ditched by the only person who's ever understood him. He KNOWS that he's a monster.

Also, both of them have achieved their goals that they set out to achieve in the first movie. Rey has come to terms with/ found out who her parents are and found belonging. Kylo has "finished" what Darth Vader started.

And yet neither of them are really happy.

In the movie, the only time the characters experience peace with the force is when

a) Ben and Rey touch hands (the force theme swells around them before DadLuke breaks up their little flirtation)
b) When Luke passes on.

You can only find the balance in the force when you let go of the anger and darker emotions in you. But you can only do that by confronting them and accepting them. As Luke does.

Ben and Rey bring balance to the force for that single second and we can almost believe that things will be alright.

Kylo and Rey WILL fight in the next movie. But it won't be a battle of good versus evil. It won't be a battle of the righteous hero against the evil villain. It'll be between two unwilling opponents which will leave the audience hurting just as much as Ben and Rey. Neither of them wants the other dead. Neither of them feels they can shift their allegiance. Rey won't kill him. She knows him too well. Obi-Wan couldn't bring himself to kill Anakin, neither will Rey be able to kill Ben.

If you think the "hopeful" and "happy" conclusion of the Skywalker Saga will be the ignominious death of Ben Solo at the hands of the woman he loves... well, wouldn't that be tragic.