1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

The Sequel trilogy is not on and will not be on "par" or "en style" with Episodes 1-6

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by YubNubBub, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    Without too many words or gobbledygook, simply, the Sequel trilogy has not and will not fit with Episodes 1-6.

    I know, blasphemy, but regardless it is true. How dare I right? This is just my opinion!

    Well, unfortunately folks, it goes beyond my mere "opinion" and deals with themes.

    The Skywalker theme as it is manifesting for 7-9 is:

    Kylo struggles to be dark and fulfill his grandfathers legacy, kill's his mother and father, and either gets killed or redeemed.

    Compare that to the Skywalker theme's of the PT and OT:

    Luke grows up, learns his father is the 2nd most evil man in the galaxy, has to decide whether to face him, or if he is even savable, all the while resisting the dark side.

    Or

    Anakin struggling after learning his wife will die while sensing the future, and given the choice to save her by committing merciless acts of evil, betraying and killing his friends, and turning into a monster.

    *****

    Episodes 7-9 simply does not and will not fit with the "en style" themes of the Skywalker family saga of 1-6, and therefor literally does not connect with 1-6.

    As Disney stated after they threw out Lucas' treatments "We want to make something for the fans"

    Now... I await the spin.

    Edit: Even if they bring Snoke back and make him Plagueis (which I am predicting), I still doubt it will be on par.
     
    #1 YubNubBub, Mar 3, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Unoriginal Unoriginal x 2
    • Original Original x 1
  2. The Next Skywalker

    The Next Skywalker Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Posts:
    321
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    2,034
    Ratings:
    +1,193 / 17 / -2
    Trust The Force.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  3. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    11,132
    Trophy Points:
    144,177
    Credits:
    13,506
    Ratings:
    +15,838 / 95 / -33
    I'm kind of agreeing with you all of this. I've been a SW fan for literally 40 years, and this Trilogy seems a bit "detached", and the only reason that I feel that way, is because I have the OT as my foundational reference...maybe I'm wanting or expecting a lot of "Luke" and it hasn't come to fruition...so it seems a bit "Hollow" to me.

    In the end, there has to be that elusive reveal or twist....that "No, I am your father" moment that makes the fan gasp and I feel like JJ had better pull out a good one or I feel (personally) like the fandom might be left feeling a bit empty when it's over.

    And no....please no Plagueis. :)
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Posts:
    237
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    7,367
    Credits:
    926
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 6 / -5
    What on earth do you mean?
    There are blasters and lightsabers and force chokes and capes and those guys in white armor running arround and dying all over the place...it is totally the same?!
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  5. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Posts:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    42,395
    Trophy Points:
    160,217
    Credits:
    21,284
    Ratings:
    +44,229 / 20 / -17
    Yep.

    ... and remember to watch through yer Kid Eyes.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    Literally... this last episode needs a rabbit pulled out of a hat.....

    And that's being generous.

    I like the Sequel trilogy, but I do not love it. I also know when it doesn't meet the bar set by it's predecessors.

    I am also wise enough to not speak out of simple infatuation with the movies thus far.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    80,288
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,841
    Ratings:
    +85,032 / 84 / -31
    Wait a minute, all this bashing is a matter of "I like ST" and not "I love the ST"? :rolleyes: Could've fooled me mate.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 3
  8. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,380
    Likes Received:
    8,656
    Trophy Points:
    92,402
    Credits:
    11,717
    Ratings:
    +14,330 / 149 / -71
    You're right it's not on par. It's better than...

    As for Luke this i that...again this trilogy in't about Luke in terms of he's the main protagonist and as for the big three they made it quite clear from the beginning it wasn't about them. I grew up with them all just like alot of people did, but I don't live in the past and hang on to them like most either. I don't sit around picking every detail apart because it doesn't fit with something made log ago. These movies are about now and the future.
     
    • Wise Wise x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • Original Original x 1
  9. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Posts:
    436
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Trophy Points:
    6,042
    Credits:
    2,237
    Ratings:
    +1,940 / 90 / -66
    Why would they do the same thing three times? How the hell is that interesting and compelling to do the same thing over and over again?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 4
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  10. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    I'm not bashing. I am just recognizing the weaknesses. I like the Sequel trilogy in that it delivers new content. I dislike the Sequel trilogy in the sense of overall plot and direction.

    You are allowed to have mixed feelings about something.

    I'm not nitpicking every detail. As a matter of fact my original post deals with generalization not detail. The question was and is, is the Sequel trilogy worthy of the Skywalker family drama/saga? Is it original? Is it a rehash?
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2018 ---
    It's not about doing the same thing.

    It's about being worthy enough of an overall arc to be counted into the Skywalker family saga.

    Think about how high the bar has been set and if this trilogy meets or exceeds that.

    Personally, I think somewhere along the line things have become confused. Kylo struggling with dark side decisions. What are we to gleam from that? Are we supposed to root for the bad guy to become darker? Does it not show his propensity to be redeemed because he has to struggle? Should it not be the opposite, as in the hero struggling and growing and we root for them? What was the point?

    But I digress, the real question is, is this story going to be worthy of the Skywalker family drama?

    So far I see a Vader (a much more conflicted childlike version) 2.0 coming. Not very original. It would have done more for them to make Ben fully comimitted and irredeemable, ending the trilogy with a victory for the Resistance but at the price of the Skywalker bloodline through Ben. That would have been original and tragic, and talked about for ages to come.

    Speaking of which, the character of Kylo is so childlike. From temper tantrums, talking to an inanimate object like a helmet, to struggles from lack of willpower (yet he desires darkness). We didn't get a Dark Lord, we got a kid living his fantasies..... OH crap they really did make a movie for some of the fanbase didn't they?
     
    #10 YubNubBub, Mar 4, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    80,288
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,841
    Ratings:
    +85,032 / 84 / -31
    Star Wars is made for twelve year olds...so what's you're point? Lucas says so himself. We see the same level of "temper trantrumps" as Anakin did in the prequels.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  12. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    I was comparing Darth Vader (non temper tantrum thrower) to Kylo Ren (temper tantrum expert).

    Your comparing Anakin to Kylo. That's like comparing Ben Solo to Darth Vader.

    SW is made for family, so quoting Lucas on that is counter intuitive to yourself considering you are probably nowhere near 12.
     
    • Clouded Clouded x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    80,288
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,841
    Ratings:
    +85,032 / 84 / -31
    We don't know necessarily, but "Kylo" and Anakin are roughly the same age at the time of their perspective trilogies. I feel like you would have to show that kind of anger to be on the dark side. Sure, I'm no where near twelve, but it's for that kid in all of us. That's what the message was supposed to mean.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Original Original x 1
  14. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    You feel you would have to show that kind of anger to be on the darkside, sure I get that. But really (in SW) it only takes a few moments of anger, fear, or hatred to completely change you into your new persona. A few bad decisions and next thing you know Gizmo turns into a Gremlin so to speak.

    The real fear of a Dark Lord is not the angry one, but the calm, collected and angry one. Anger leads to brash decisions, calm focusing of that anger (like Vader) leads to.... well... the galaxy bowing down to you.

    Vader focused his anger, calmy. Which was why he was so powerful. Vader indeed was full of anger, just the more dangerous mature kind. Which is why I say Kylo is literally like a Dark Lord child, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

    I am starting to wonder if Ben is truely redeemable... because he struggles with "the call to the light". You would think it would be opposite, but I am starting to think Kylo, because of his childlike full vent to his emotions, is actually so in tune with the dark side that he may be unredeemable and deep down he wants it that way.

    So you can say in a way, being more childlike temper tantrum could possible make you more of an adult dark side user incapable of redemption. While having a calmer anger makes your more susceptible to conversion back to the light.

    I think my brain might explode... or I have hit a moment of genius.....

    It is my opinion now that Kylo Ren formerly Ben Solo will die. He will die and so will the Skywalker bloodline with him. If so, this trilogy will piss alot of people off but end properly. I would also call this a fitting, tragic, but fitting end and worthy to be on par with the OT and PT.

    If not, if he is redeemed, then I stand by my position it will not be on par.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2018 ---
    Ok, so, I'd like to rephrase my original post, everyone.

    If Ben Solo dies, and is not redeemed....... it will be worthy en style of the OT and PT.

    If Ben Solo is redeemed..... it will not be worthy en style of the OT and PT.

    That is my final verdict on it after extensive thought.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,294
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,675
    Ratings:
    +19,242 / 799 / -292
    The ST is about the legacy of Darth Vader.
    The PT was about his rise.
    The OT about his redemption.

    It fits perfectly. It keeps Vader centre stage and Vader is what the Skywalker Story has always really been about.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Posts:
    436
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Trophy Points:
    6,042
    Credits:
    2,237
    Ratings:
    +1,940 / 90 / -66
    This trilogy has already surpassed the extremely low bar that the embarrassing prequel disasters set. And it's only 2/3rds complete.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Posts:
    1,503
    Likes Received:
    1,508
    Trophy Points:
    6,192
    Credits:
    2,521
    Ratings:
    +2,408 / 394 / -178

    I agree as well. I'm not saying that "Episode IX" will be bad. I hope not. But I was not happy with "The Force Awakens" and "The Last Jedi". Even if I end up enjoying "Episode IX", I don't think I would regard the Sequel Trilogy as a whole with the same high regard as I do the Original and Prequel Trilogies. Not if I dislike two out of three films.
     
    • Wise Wise x 3
  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,281
    Likes Received:
    4,417
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,881
    Ratings:
    +6,698 / 176 / -38
    I look at this subject in a big picture theme perspective. The 4-6 story from 1977-83 was about Luke and his personal journey and how he eventually redeemed his father.

    The PT sort of redefined that story so if you watch it 1-6, it is now about the full arc of Darth Vader and how his son redeems him.

    I’m torn on the ST and what theme will redefine the 1-9 story, or if it can? I think the only way to have this Trilogy fit with 1-6 is for Rey and Kylo to represent the light and dark. Somehow the Force will be the overriding theme of the 9 movies and these 2 characters will be the key to it all in Episode 9.
     
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 3
  19. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    The Prequels were brilliant so I don't know what your talking about. The PT has an avid fanbase, and alot of those who dislike TLJ are PT fans.

    I am always amazed at the lack of appreciation for the Prequels. I've heard the most ridiculous arguements against the Prequels.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  20. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    371
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    3,967
    Credits:
    2,301
    Ratings:
    +1,141 / 192 / -358
    To reiterate, my final thought is if this ends with a shorter Vader 2.0 redemption thing, I will be displeased. The trilogy will forever be rebranded "unoriginal", not by me, but by the general public. The outcry will only get worse.

    To make this trilogy original, Ben Solo needs to never be redeemed. This trilogy needs to end on a tragic note for the Skywalker bloodline.

    I've let a lot slide with this new trilogy. A lot. I've overlooked things over and over.

    I saw a video breakdown on youtube the other day dealing with inconsistencies from the ST. It was well thought out, had plenty of video and canonical evidence to back it up. Did you know before TFA no jedi no sith had ever sensed anything other than emotions, no tangible information was ever able to be retrieved. Yet during the Kylo/Rey scene we got information now being able to literally be downloaded.

    It's not nitpicking, it's consistency. I mean, if you are a good fan, you will want the Sequel trilogy to line up with it's predecessors. If you don't care about inconsistency, then what kind of fan are you? Are you really trying to be drawn into a galaxy far far away?

    Which is why moving Kylo's scar was such a big deal to many of us. I mean, we want to be drawn into the movie, down to the details. That is the director's job and supporting team.

    So to sum up, I have overlooked alot. George was so about artistic vision and consistency he poured over his trilogies to create The Perfect Story. Which is why when people bash the Prequels I get upset.

    Wooden acting from Christen Haydenson? I mean come on, that's WHO HE IS. Have you never seen his interviews? Or saying incapacitating Darth Maul in TPM was a bad idea because he could have been a Vader in the PT. Seriously? He was not supposed to be a Vader of the PT, but rather an expendable Sith Lord, a temporary menace if you will.

    The arguements against the Prequels are silly. Alot of the people behind these silly arguements are avid defenders of the Sequel trilogy.

    Anyway, the point is, I have let a lot slide. But I will not let the overall arc of the Sequel trilogy slide by. No sir. I draw a line in the sand. If this trilogy ends with a redemption, then I will literally remove 7-9 from my library and declare it non canon in my SW. They have taken so much liberty with someone else's creation, dishonoring him even by not asking for his input....

    So for all the actors involved from 1-6, for George, for all the hard work and sweat that made SW great, I will remove 7-9 from my canon if it ends in such a stereotypical and unoriginal manner. That's not me being prudish, that's me celebrating my fandom by rejection of a fabricated SW that does not honor it's predecessors.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
Loading...

Share This Page