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The Sequel trilogy is not on and will not be on "par" or "en style" with Episodes 1-6

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by YubNubBub, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. KesselRunner

    KesselRunner Rebel Official

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    George Lucas once said that the story of Star Wars was told by the droids Artoo and Threepio. So, from that point of view (because many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view), it is now BB-8 who is telling the story. There's a different storyteller, so naturally, the story will have a different feel to it. Personally, I prefer Artoo and Threepio to BB-8, but that doesn't mean that BB-8 is a bad storyteller. ;)
     
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  2. Whipswar

    Whipswar Rebelscum

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    The world has changed, cinema has changed, Hollywood, society, standards, they have all changed. I love every single episode, but, in reality, all three trilogies are just so different from each other. I think ST is the most different from the other two, but that's what is going to HAVE to happen in this new "era of Star Wars". If we are going to continue getting new Star Wars content, it's going to have to adapt to the world today. That is a world that would harshly scrutinize the OT if it were shot for shot, line for line, released exactly as is today. Same for the PT, and that wasn't even released four decades ago. Doesn't mean we all have to like and enjoy the new content just as much as the others, and we can all still criticize it just the same! But being different from the others is just something I see as inevitable.

    But hey, that's just my opinion! New to this site so, hello everybody! Hope I just didn't ostricize myself or break any rules with this post haha.
     
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  3. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    The original trilogy was about teaching kids of the era old morality tales in a fun and exciting spacey way because the space age and NASA was a popular and exciting thing in the 1970s and 1980s. Oh and sell toys based on the film, because kids like toys, because videogames don't exist yet.

    The prequel trilogy was about giving a bit of back story to some of the original characters, and to subliminally advertise ILM's CGI technology skills that didn't exist 20 years previously so that ILM would be contracted to make the CGI for films from other studios and make some cash. Sadly, they concentrated too much on the visual effects of the prequels and not so much on the characters and story.

    The sequel trilogy exists to cynically make money for a large rodent-based corporation from the least imagination and effort possible. By any means. Recycle, remake, retell the old films. Be completely secretive about the film content before its release so shareholders aren't worried by fan reaction. Fill Toys R Us with expensive merch in hope fans will buy merch. Witness Toys R Us go under because nobody wants to buy that stuff any more, because kids don't play with plastic toys any more. They play videogames instead.
     
    #43 SKB, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
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  4. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    My point of view still remains...

    If this ends with a Vader 2.0 redemption what are we to gleam from that?

    Ben Solo must die, ending the Skywalker bloodline for the ST to stand with the other trilogies. It will be original and tragic.

    I mean to have him kill Han, and Luke by proxy and to redeem him? Naaaaaaaw.

    Ben Solo must die.
     
  5. President Skroob

    President Skroob Rebel Trooper

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    Glean. Not gleam.
     
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  6. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Welcome to the Cantina @Whipswar! Good opinion!

    The same message, but a more visceral arc because we SAW the horror Ren inflicted/was implicit in. We SAW Ren choose the Dark Side. And to come back from that? I think that's a powerful message.

    But I think the important thing is that this message MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU. This would be for the kids who have never seen a Star Wars movie before TFA; kids who don't know Vader. Or maybe even people like me, who grew up on the OT and grew up with the PT. I like Vader, but I never feared him until Rebels and R1. His redemption didn't really hit me because I grew up with it. But if Kylo's redeemed, that would mean something to me.

    And even in all of that, the message behind the redemption would be different. Vader slipped into the Dark Side more or less because he thought it was the better of the two options in that moment. But when the moment came for him to save the galaxy, to turn back and save his son, he did.
    Ben, when asked to rejoin the light, rejected it. But even after all of that rejection, if he can redeem himself, maybe there's hope out there for someone who relates to Kylo.

    That's one of the themes of Star Wars, isn't it? Love? Along with Redemption and Hope. Or rather, Redemption through Hope and Love. Be it Familial Love, Romantic Love, or maybe even Love Between Kindred Spirits.

    You don't like this trilogy as much as the OT or PT? That's fine, I hear you. You don't think it compares? That's all well and good. My advice would be, stop comparing it then. Try to find the good points in the smaller pieces. Actors, characters, arcs, visual effects, music, etc.

    Besides, what would a new trilogy be without some echoing arcs (and I mean beyond one movie following the story structure of a previous one*) and themes? It's like poetry, it rhymes! ;)



    *YMMV on whether or not TFA is an echo, an homage, or a rip-off. I fall in the middle category, but not everyone does.
     
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  7. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    I disagree with so much you've said here. Is SW about hope or despair? I like Hayden Christensen, but defending his obviously subpar acting in the PT is just... I have no words. And we didn't get enough of Darth Maul, period.

    George Lucas did not create perfect stories. I'm scratching my head on that one. If he did, why are there so many questions surrounding SW plot lines/characters?

    I really like the OT, ST (though TLJ has glaring issues), and ROTS. If TPM and AOTC didn't exist anymore, I wouldn't cry. They have their moments, but they're moments for me. The PT isn't on par with the OT, imo.
     
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  8. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Thank the Force this is capitalism.

    Ep .VIII earned 417 million dollars net income (this includes hughe momentum in the first week of theatric run based on high expectations after episode VII).

    Suddenly 4 billion dollars they payed to Lucas for his 6 films franchise in 2012, worths 10 (ten) Ep. VIII Box office earnings in 2018 prices.

    They earned much by TFA , but now they lost the momentum carried by significant portion of fanbase, including the oldest and and actually influential hardcore fans.

    If they will make further critical mistakes, like persisting on Rey random,thinking that people are stupid to come over Mary Sues , and throwaway Snoke type of approach, fail to admitt they insulted old fans, they will earn less and less with each subsequent movie, until became barely if profitable at all.

    Money will fix the things, in this or another way.

    Fanbase is awaiting episode IX with reserve.They must disprove fears, and face box Office consequences.

    If they do not understand this by now,the end of it is foreseeable.
     
    #48 McDiarmid, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  9. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    The Star Wars franchise is a juggernaut and Disney knew that, that's why they bought it. I remember people being disappointed when the PT movies came out and I was in my late teens and had zero interest in SW back then.

    You can't please everybody, no matter what you do. "This movie is just a rehash!" "This movie is too different, it's not Star Wars!". I mean, no middle ground exists to please ALL.
     
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  10. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Their mistake is to try to please all. They should please old fans by sticking to Star Wars mythology, and the less invested public, however more numerous, will adapt.

    Example: If they were made Rey Skywalker , the hardcore fans will be overhelmed,they would carry on the franchise activism (criticaly underestimated in significance), and the rest will adapt.

    Rey random is generalised polithical parole which have pleased many, however it has hurt unproportionately the old fan base who were expecting Skywalker saga to be completed as truly Skywalker saga.

    General public would however accept also if its Rey Skywalker (as any other solution, if its made well)because they are less invested in the mythos anyway, but on the other hand many hardcore fans will not accept Rey Random since in a supposed Skywalker trilogy it hurts mythology in which they invested decades, and by this they would be alienated, many even lost.
    By this(if Rey is truly random) Disney has certainly lost fine portion of income and support on a long run.

    And when I mean hardcore fans I mean on poeple in their 40-s and 50-s,which grew up with original Star Wars, with Luke. This poeple could support Star Wars for 30 years more, people live longer..Yet they made films like they count on support of youngsters who actually care for Star Wars just as for Transformers, or Thor Ragnarok.
     
    #50 McDiarmid, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  11. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    I don't understand fandoms that only value a certain type of fan. You're using the term "hardcore" and saying that the only serious fans are in their 40s or 50s. I was born the year ROTJ came out, so it's a literal impossibility for me to have been a fan from the beginning and I find that insulting. I'm a pretty new fan and I may be no less fanatical than you are in my mind. Young people can love Star Wars, too, also.

    I personally don't want Rey to be a Skywalker. If she's a Kenobi, I'm ok with that, but I think we already have our answers in regard to her lineage. Ben Solo is your Skywalker in the ST and I'm sorry you're disappointed in that, but I think he's awesome.
     
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  12. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Its sentiment.It is hard to explain the feelings of a 9 yr kid watching Empire Strikes Back ,the scene when Luke lands on Cloud city is the exact day,hour,minutes of my life in that 1980. when I ,myself,felt and remember I became fully conscious person, no more little kid.I have this feeling to this day.
    People who are joking on "destroyed childoods" do not understand,or refuse to accept that watching Luke drink sea milk on Ahch to was more than" artistic twist "for many.
    So my inner defense is- why should they made him old defeated crazy hermit unless she is his daughter?That hurts me.Why?
     
    #52 McDiarmid, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  13. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    Your experiences and opinions are no more important than anyone else's. Certainly you have a right to your opinion, but this attitude of other fans not being "real" fans unless they have the same experience as you is rather bothersome to me. It's not just in the SW universe, it's in any fandom and I happen to like to call it out when I see it. If new fans come on board, make them feel welcome, not excluded.

    Your childhood wasn't destroyed, you were disappointed.
     
  14. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    But if Rey is not Skywalker,after what they'we done to Luke,leaves me no option but to leave.It is true.That makes me different,I have no resources to accept Luke's destiny in this case. And I am not the only one.
    One thing is sure if Rey is not Skywalker ep. IX is the last SW film for me,I repeat because what they did to Luke.
     
    #54 McDiarmid, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  15. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    That's your choice.
     
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  16. benjay2345

    benjay2345 Rebelscum

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    One of the biggest things they could do on this front is make Rey a Skywalker. Rey not being a Skywalker just makes no sense in the 1-9 narrative. Each of the main protagonists in each trilogy has been a Skywalker. To not have Rey be sets this apart from the get go and creates that disconnect. Why is Rey's story part of the Skywalker Saga if she isn't a Skywalker? I know that the main counterargument to this is that Kylo is the Skywalker of this trilogy, then why isn't he just the main character (obviously not the protagonist but make him the front focus). It just makes so much narrative sense for Rey to be a Skywalker that not having her be one seems like an intentional subversion of expectations (why make a film if you are just not going to do what people want in any form). NO ONE WOULD HAVE ARGUED IF REY WAS REVEALED TO BE A SKYWALKER. Also, something else that would help tie the 1-9 narrative together is if Snoke is revealed to be Plagueis which a lot of people don't want at all but I think would make it interesting of what we saw as Palpatine's master plan was actually just Plagueis pulling the strings in some way. This would connect this to the prequels as well as the originals. Also, having the ghost of Anakin appear in IX would help tie this together and if Anakin is the light that is pulling at Kylo. this would make the trilogies tie together as the Rise and Fall of Anakin (prequels) The Redemption of Anakin (originals) and The Legacy of Anakin (sequels). This would seem to tie it together nicely. But still this would function even better if Rey and Kylo were Skywalkers.
     
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  17. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    My original wish before TFA came out was Rey and Kylo were either Han/Leia’s kids our cousins as one was the offspring of Luke. I thought they should both be good in this Trilogy, but a lot of character development could be about their competitiveness with their Force Powers.

    As for the 9 part story, the PT was about how the Skywalkers helped bring down the Republic. The OT was about how The Skywalkers saved the Republic. The ST could be about how the Skywalker keep the Republic going. The ST could be told with the shadow of Darth Vader’s legacy in the background. Some in the Republic will never trust a Skywalker/Solo because of their bloodline to Vader, while others stand with them knowing they are the good guys. The new villain could play on the Anti-Vader crowd to tear down the Republic.
     
    #57 Jedi77-83, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  18. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    all people are entitled to there choices. If people want to leave because of no Rey Sky that's up to them. It's never bothered me personally. I'm more bothered about been told to like a murderous nasty piece of work whilst the story dumps on previous narratives of the past. Then told to accept it because the villain is complex bs. He's a whiney ratbag there's, morecomplex issues with Hux
     
  19. KalKenobi83

    KalKenobi83 Rebelscum

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    I respectfully I disagree I think 7-8 fit in Nicely also we have gotten a great trio of characters i think Abrams & Terrio will close the Skywalker Saga nicely
     
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  20. Boba is boss

    Boba is boss Rebel Commander

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    Meh, i just want ep IX to have new ideas and give the new characters development. My expectations are low after TLJ nightmare.
     
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