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The setup for IX, and where the story could go

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Boss Vos, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    TLJ left us with us with a sense of final conclusion, many wondering what will come next. Of course, wondering what will come next is normal for any audience waiting for a sequel, but when it comes to TLJ many thought that it felt like the final film in a trilogy, rather than a second act.

    So, what's the setup for Episode IX and where do our characters stand?

    First of all, where does the galaxy stand politically? The ending of the film makes it pretty clear that the Resistance is no more, and instead the Rebellion is reborn. They could still call themselves the Resistance though, but who knows? It seems nobody around in the galaxy wants to help them, or maybe they thought Crait was a hopeless case. Once the legend of Crait spreads across the galaxy (which is shown as well) perhaps other systems will start to help the reborn Rebellion.

    Rey - is now the last Jedi. She will possibly teach a new group of students the ways of the Force, and the boy at the end of TLJ might be one of the students.

    Kylo - is now the Supreme Leader of the First Order. He will possibly face problems with the leadership, many questioning his experience and decisions. His mind will be obsessed with destroying the Resistance and killing Rey, whom he may not like anymore.

    Finn - is possibly promoted to a captain of the Resistance, along with Rose. This will be a nice nod to how he was serving under Captain Phasma in the first film, and now in the third film he has become a captain himself.

    Poe - is obviously promoted back to Wing Commander. Unless..... see Leia below.

    Leia - will remain the leader of the Resistance, but she will be absent from the actual storyline since she is busy travelling around the galaxy gathering help from other systems. It's possible that in her absence, she will grant temporarily leadership to Poe, but it's a stretch.

    Luke - is now a Force Ghost. He will guide Rey through some parts of the movie, but it's obvious that he will not be the main focus.

    Hux - nothing will change here.... move along.

    What might happen?
    First of all, there has to be a time jump this time. I don't think Episode IX will start right after TLJ. The Resistance will need time to build up their former strength, and if they want to show Rey having children as students - its inevitable. I'd say 1 year is plausible.

    My guess is that the central theme of the story will be redemption and forgiveness, as well as the refusal to accept redemption and forgiveness.
     
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  2. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    One exciting thing, for me, is now there's been a "speculation reset" of sorts with TLJ.

    We now have more information going into IX, which could be helpful if characters and events followed a fairly predictable course from where TLJ left off.

    I think IX needs to conclude in the most amazing and profound way, which, in my mind, moves it outside the figurative circle of familiarity and introduces some things we might be unable to anticipate entirely or properly.

    I think there may be opportunities for key twists in major characters, for example:
    - Kylo's relationship with the First Order
    - Rey's direction as a Jedi

    As I suggested in another thread, perhaps Kylo is no longer the comfortable Snoke-like leader letting others do what he cannot.

    Kylo is far more volatile and intent on besting the twisting perception of Vader he has in his mind. I can't imagine Kylo sitting too long in Snoke's throne room or something like it.

    Perhaps a Anakin/Vader aspect of his existence kicks in, and, like Anakin, he gets to a point Anakin similarly reached:

    Anakin: "Something's happening. I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more. And I know I shouldn't."

    Kylo: "Something's happening to me. I'm not Vader. I'm more powerful and relentless than he ever hoped to be. But I want more. "

    (echoes of Palpatine: "He became so powerful,the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power. Which, eventually, of course, he did.")

    So perhaps Kylo abandons or disbands the First Order as he goes on pursue his deeper quest of ruling the galaxy as he imagined Vader might have -- and perhaps doing so from Vader's castle on Mustafar, declaring himself king/emperor/supreme leader of the galaxy and using unprecedented Dark Side powers to subjugate or eradicate any civilization failing to recognize and bow to his rule.

    Rey, in the meantime, is popularly expected to be the new "last Jedi," maybe even be the one who finally manages to reestablish the Jedi Order.

    But, perhaps she realizes Luke was on to something about the Jedi ending and that she needs to learn and experience more before she presumes to pass on what she believes she had learned. Perhaps some dialogue with Luke reveals this.

    Part of this consideration is that, while Rey might be a natural "Force prodigy," other Force sensitives might not be as gifted or naturally inclined to tap the Force in the same seemingly effortless manner she does.

    Using the Force is not the same as teaching others how to use the Force.

    That personal impasse for Rey could cause potential frustration, jealousy, or resentment among one or more other students. This, on top of her lack of formal training and possible lack of historic awareness (beyond any manuscripts she might read), could place her at an even worse disadvantage than Luke had with his students, who was trained by the legendary Obi-Wan and Yoda.

    Any failure Rey might experience in that position could potentially lead to the "next Kylo" coming into existence.

    So, right away, there are potentially natural and surprising turns our major characters could face.

    Perhaps Poe pulls another take-on-the-First-Order-all-by-myself mission and that leads to the Resistance command ship being eliminated. With Leia lost, he leaves the Resistance and goes off to find Kylo -- and/or Kylo then personally pursues Poe.

    Finn, now that he's invested in the Resistance, could prove especially effective at helping to defeat the First Order from within by inspiring a mass Stormtrooper uprising and defection -- perhaps by revealing to them that the First Order has been feeding them illusions and controlling their minds since the beginning.

    Finn awoke, and I think he could help others break free (become "traitors") from the First Order grip.

    Hux could try to overthrow Kylo, believing he (Hux) has a more "rightful" claim to the role of Supreme Leader.

    Beyond this, I'd like to see this conflict move beyond the traditional militaristic Rebellion / Resistance vs. Empire / First Order matchup, where it all comes down to some final battle decided, at last, in a few key but unlikely moments.

    Perhaps, as I also suggested in another thread, the Resistance and FO find they must work together, even temporarily, in an attempt to deal with an increasingly malevolent and out-of-control Kylo raising chaos from Mustafar.

    I think IX should further develop the Force link Rey and Kylo supposedly still share. Every time they connected, they've used the opportunity to see deeper into each other's minds.

    Kylo knew early about the island, and Rey's loneliness, and then, in TLJ, he appeared to reveal to her what she already knew but hid from everyone, including herself, concerning her parentage.

    Perhaps Rey and Kylo can respectively tap the Force in a galaxy-spanning battle of Force wits and visions, with Rey (with Luke) trying to convince Kylo to return to the light (e.g. showing him his younger self with Han Solo, letting him speak with his grandfather and perhaps eventually Han Solo himself) , while Kylo attempts to draw Rey deeper into the Dark Side through visions which trigger her emotions and fears.

    I think that could be massively mystical, visionary, and powerful, if properly done, if these final battles could be waged in realms akin to Mortis or the cave on Dagobah.

    If IX takes any inspiration from TLJ, I really think it must be further along the "so much bigger" line of thinking.
     
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  3. bigbayblue

    bigbayblue Rebel Official

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    I think it would be interesting to see Kylo's anger and hate ultimately be his undoing. The Dark Side has given him everything he thought he wanted, but will others continue to follow him? It would be fitting if Hux and the rest of the First Order abandoned him, or splintered, when he needs them most.

    If he holds true to character, he will lash out at Rey - angry at her rejection of him, but deep down wanting nothing more than to lure her back to him. She would very likely become his obsession.
     
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  4. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    JediMasterRobert, I love your ideas. However I'm doubtful the filmmakers will be sharing the same vision as you. You seem to be sharing many fans' idea of "IX needs to conclude in the most amazing and profound way" - This is what we're all hoping for. But what if the end result is not the amazing and profound way we're hoping for? We shouldn't expect that. The only thing we can (obviously) count on is that the First Order will lose and the good guys will win. Everything else surrounding that, how plot twists will be resolved, how characters' motivations and struggles will be answered and revealed - Those are all things we shouldn't expect to happen.

    Even so, I'd like to discuss more about your ideas.

    This is interesting. Kylo is by all means a new version of Anakin, sharing the same traits of frustration and anger. However, does his frustration and anger stem from the fact that he is like Anakin - or is it because he is not like Anakin? Maybe he is actually more like Han or Luke. I would like to have some of these "questions" answered.

    That being said, if Kylo finally comes to the conclusion that he isn't like Vader and will never be, like you said - what will he do? And more importantly, what will the First Order do? Could we be witnessing a mutiny led by Hux?

    Another interesting thought, but in all honesty I think this will be overlooked completely. I think Rey will be shown as being exceptionally good at being with children and helping them realize their full potential. And I'm pretty sure Luke's Force ghost will be around to give advice in Episode IX, possibly along with Yoda and Obi-Wan.

    This is a long-shot from my side, but since JJ hinted at the prequels being referenced - What if Kylo awakens some sort of ancient army of clones? And this is what forces the Resistance and FO to work together. Hux will then be killed by Kylo, along with many others in the "management" of the FO, leaving mostly soldiers and workers alive. The Resistance will forgive them and give them a second chance if they promise to behave. Kylo will be furious and he will be the only one left who doesn't accept the second chance that is being offered. Rey will tell him "You are alone, Ben". Kylo will try to kill Rey, but this is when Rey pulls of the most incredible use of the Force ever witnessed.... Once Kylo strucks his lightsaber inside her, Rey will touch her hand on Kylo's face, and through the Force the two of them will switch bodies. So, instead, Kylo will die and Rey will live - the fight is over and peace is brought back to the galaxy.
     
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  5. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    This is among the most central questions any Dark Sider must ultimately confront, and Kylo is getting there.

    Anakin "wanted more," even though he knew he should not have.

    Even Emperor Palpatine, with the most consolidated "power" and Imperial influence the galaxy had yet seen during the saga timeline, continued to pursue darker powers yet and looked out towards the Unknown Regions, seeking, if not being called upon, to search for what he thought might be the "source" of such dark powers.

    Maul and Tyranus/Dooku also misplaced their faith in the Dark Side, as did Vader for an extended period.

    But, despite his conquests, mastery of the Dark Side, and inward searching, Vader only found answers and acceptance in the Light, thanks to Luke.

    I think that here is where a well-placed appearance by Anakin Skywalker could possibly attempt to talk some sense into Ben in Episode IX.

    Ben wouldn't recognize him at first, of course:

    Imagine Kylo having an passionate but unproductive argument with Hux over using the Dark Side vs. the First Order to rule the galaxy. Hux leaves.

    Kylo yells out as Hux departs, "You don't know the power of the Dark Side!"

    Then Anakin says, "I once thought as you did. I was wrong."

    Kylo ignites his lightsaber and demands, "Who are you? How did you get here?"

    Anakin appears, smiles. Kylo strikes at him -- through him -- and, seeing he gets nowhere tries to Force-choke Anakin.

    Anakin calmly says, "Listen to me, Ben. Please."

    Kylo: How do you know my name? Who are you?

    Anakin: Someone you loves you.

    Kylo: You lie! I am hated. You have no right to speak--

    Anakin silences Kylo with a wave of his hand.

    Kylo is stunned, unable to speak, but not choking either. His lightsaber falls to the ground, deactivates.

    Anakin: A long time ago I once went by another name. A name most people feared but one you somehow grew to love. Vader. Yes. I was Darth Vader. But I was someone else before that. Someone loved by someone I loved too much. Padme. I was afraid she would die. I was promised the Dark Side had all the answers. That I could save her. But it doesn't work that way. It always got worse. I lost her. And all was lost until one called me by my name. My son.

    Luke appears as a Force Ghost.

    Kylo cannot believe what he sees.

    Luke: It's true, Ben. All of it. Search your feelings. Snoke lied to you. I wanted to show you, spare you from all that, but I failed.

    Luke waves his hand, restoring Kylo's voice.

    Kylo: No. It's too late for me.

    Anakin laughs, shakes his head in disagreement.

    Anakin: It wasn't for me, and you know what I did.

    Kylo: But what about the helmet? What it showed me?

    Luke: More lies. Snoke lied to all of us. Han was right.

    Kylo: Father. My father.

    Luke: Ben, it's never too late to atone for your wrongs. To ask for forgiveness.

    Luke waves his hand. Han appears before his son.

    Kylo: Father. I'm so --

    Han: Sorry. I know. Me too. More than you'll know.

    Kylo: Now what?

    Anakin: Renounce the Dark Side.

    Luke: There's still hope. Leave this place, Ben.

    Kylo: What if I don't want to be saved?

    Han: Ben, please. Come home.

    Kylo (getting angrier): And if I refuse to change? If I love this suffering?

    Rey enters.

    Rey: Then you are truly lost.

    Anakin: Don't give into hate, Ben.

    The Force Ghosts disappear. Kylo ignites his lightsaber, lunges forward fiercely.

    Kylo (to Rey): I hate you!

    Rey: You may say that but you hate yourself.

    Rey ignites her lightsaber. They duel....

     
    #5 JediMasterRobert, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  6. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Hux will definitely be undermining Kylo's leadership if not outright mutiny.

    Kylo needs to learn that being a Supreme Leader with people who only fear him, rather than being with his family who would love him, will have consequences. Hux will serve that point.
     
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  7. Rob

    Rob Rebel Commander

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    I think there has to be a time jump from TLJ to IX (A year to two years?). It doesn't make sense to pick up right where the last one ended. We need time for Kylo to become a master of the dark side and a competent Supreme Leader to be the formidable villain going forward. Equally the resistance must have recovered as much as they can to become the new rebellion and have any type of armada to fight off the First Order. " They blow you up today - you blow them up tomorrow".

    With enough time Leia could have died off screen (old age, assasination or war) and we could open with her funeral on Naboo. Maybe Kylo issues a brief armistice to allow his mother to have the funeral she deserves and then Hux undermines him and attacks.

    Rey should make enough of an advance to becoming a jedi knight under ghost Luke's tutelage. Does she still believe Ben can be redeemed.
     
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  8. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    your idea sounds awesome
     
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  9. DarthNorgaard

    DarthNorgaard Rebelscum

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    I beleive maybe they let 3 to 4 years pass by. That will allow some great growth for the characters and a got platform for an ending
     
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  10. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    Rey goes into hiding but broomstick boy finds her but she refuses to join the rebels once more so broomstick boy leaves but in the end Rey force projects her ghost across the galaxy to save the day.
     
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  11. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Luke Skywaker wakes up from a horrible dream & yells "Mara! Where is my son!"
     
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  12. heatersintheocean

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    Rey should dig into Kylo's past more in an effort to pinpoint what went wrong. The scene where Luke confronts him isn't the turning point; it's said he was already giving into the dark side. Obv TLJ talks about letting the past die, but that doesn't mean it can't be learned from. Delving deeper into Kylo's mindset would fit Kylo being the main villain. It isn't his power that's fearful, it's what happened to him that made him this way.
     
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  13. Gechoman44

    Gechoman44 Rebelscum

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    What I Think:

    REY-Builds A Purple Double Bladed Lightsaber, Gets Trained By Luke’s Force Ghost And The Books She Stole, And Tries To Bring Kylo Back To The Light

    FINN-Becomes The Same Rank Poe Was In The Resistance In TFA And Starts A Romantic Relationship With Rey Or Rose

    POE-Now The Leader Of The Resistance

    ROSE-Wakes Up From Her Coma And Tries To Get In A Repationship With Finn, Basically The Same Rank That Poe Was In TFA

    C-3PO-Comic Relief

    R2-D2-Now Rey’s Droid But Mostly Used For Comic Relief

    BB-8-Pretty Much The Same Role As C-3PO In TLJ, But With A Bigger Role

    CHEWBACCA-Basically Same Role As In TLJ, Same With His Porg

    LEIA-Either Died Or Retired Between Films

    LUKE-Tries To Train Rey As A Force Ghost After Learning That She Must Be Trained

    YODA, OBI-WAN, & ANAKIN-May Or May Not Appear To Aid Luke With Training Rey

    BB-9E-Basically Does Nothing The Whole Film, Like In TLJ

    HUX-Tries To Kill Kylo But Gets Killed Instead

    KYLO REN-Refuses To Turn Back To The Light And Simply Dies A Dark Sider

    PHASMA-Dead

    FN-2199-Dead

    Snoke-Still Alive, But Does Not Appear Because He Is In Hiding And Because He Is Too OP

    DJ-Does Not Appear

    NEW VILLIAN-I Think There Will Be A New Bounty Hunter To Act As A Replacement Boba Fett
     
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  14. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Something they'll never do.......

    Rey dies in "Ben's arms".
     
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  15. heatersintheocean

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    That would be a great movie to watch. Though I don't know if the audience would be sympathetic to anyone in the First Order, so watching them put their lives at risk would cause mixed emotions
     
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  16. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I agree it would be a challenge.

    On thing I also suggested above as a possibility could then help cast the First Order in a new light (figuratively and literally as an enlightened people freed from their captive illusions):

     
  17. kilowatt

    kilowatt Rebel Trooper

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    most of people seem to be suggesting a character study type story. That is not going to happen particularly if they want to make their money back on the movie. ST is a tentpole blockbuster that will cost hundreds of millions to make and marketed so expect lots of actions and only necessary drama. And that how it should be. I do not want an arthouse ST movie.
     
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  18. Sparafucile

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    I'm not going to pretend I know anything, but here's what I hope is in it.

    I'd like to see Rey start her Jedi academy on Yavin IV or some place similar. That jungle being a location where some of the action takes place. It would be a neat call back to the EU fans and we haven't seen much in the way of jungle settings in SW.

    I don't know why, but I can't envision Kylo being a competent leader of an entire army. If there's a time lapse, and Leia is around for any time in that time lapse, I can't see Kylo defeating her, not in strategy, not in leadership and ability to draw more forces. So I think Kylo either goes off with the KoR or on his own and Hux leads the FO. Even under Hux the FO would be at a sever disadvantage matching wits with Leia. Maybe my opinion of Leia is too high lol. I also realize the Resistance needs to pretty much start from scratch, so there is that.

    Leia's a wild card. As is the time lapse. If there isn't one, then I don't how they make a battle work unless someone swoops in to take the FO off the Resistance's back. Assuming there is a time lapse, then it's how long does Leia survive? If she's around until just before the events of IX, then I can see the resistance being in a pretty good position, but this also depends on how long the time lapse is. So both Leia and the time lapse are major question marks that make most predictions difficult until we know what those are.

    We've never seen a black hole, red giant or neutron star in SW. Maybe it's a little too sciency, but having a battle around something like that would be interesting and different. Maybe even a super weapon based around one.

    I don't see Poe leading the resistance. He'll be a leader, but not the leader. Again, maybe a time lapse changes this, but I don't see anyone giving him the reins so soon after his failures in TLJ. Leia or any leadership would want some time to observe him to see if he's learned from his mistakes before entrusting him with such responsibility. Of course he might get the role out of necessity if Leia dies unexpectedly and there is no one to fill the void.

    Finn will probably be Poe's right hand man in whatever position Poe finds himself in. I'd like to see something about Finn's back story unfold, something about storm trooper indoctrination, some old friends he may still have or family. I really hope they give him a role that has a direct impact with the story.

    Rose I have a feeling won't be an outright spy, but she'll be kind of a reverse Lando. Whereas Lando started off as treacherous, she'll wind up treacherous. I expect her to have issues with the Resistances methods, or she'll go more extreme and the Resistance won't agree with her. Though that very well might not go that way.

    Luke I expect will be a FG, but I don't expect any more additions to lore as in FG combat. Having Luke haunting Kylo would be cool.

    I think it would be cool if the Resistance made a deal with the Hutts. I'd like to see new Hutt ships and Hutts in combat, as well as this could go on to show the ambiguity of war. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It could also give legitimacy of Rose's betrayal. Seeing the Hutt's home world would be neat too. It doesn't have to be Hutt's though, any moral ambiguous group would do.
     
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  19. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    tumblr_p5qmbzYrjx1rxm9ewo1_540.gif

    you'd be surprised perhaps.
    the FO has quite the support from a large contingency within the fandom.
    not because of, but in spite of the awful things they've done.
    because they have just as much legitimate right to exist as anyone.
    they just don't have the right to deprive others of their resources or freedom.

    i like the idea of the Rebels and the FO having to work together (just as Rey and Ben did in TLJ).
    they don't need to agree ideologically. they (both!) just need to stop trying to control everything.

    the galaxy is big enough for everyone. i hope the message of the ST is "get along, all of you!"
    not: build the bigger superweapon or have the most awesomest Force power to "win".
     
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  20. Lord Phanatic

    Lord Phanatic Indigenous Ruler of Hoth
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    This is probably a long shot and I hate the fact that it's a long shot. Enter Lando...........into the frey upon hearing about the "death" of Leia and the call for help from the Resistance. He was the Alliance General in the space battle above Endor, the third act of the OT. So It would be an awesome throwback and just awesome period to have him fill in the void of General or in a leadership type of role against the First Order in the third act of the ST.
     
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