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The Spatiality of the Starkiller attack on the Hosnian System

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Angelman, Jul 9, 2016.

  1. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    Hi All,

    My appologies if this has been covered already, but has it ever been explained just how the Starkiller Base (locate in the Unknown Regions) firing at the Hosnian System (Core Worlds) could be witnessed from the surface of Takodana (Mid Rim)? The spatiality here confuses me to no en. And on a related topic, how did Kylo Ren watch the Starkiller weapon fire on Starkiller Base, the beam passing just outside his ship's window, and then he shows up on Takodana a few minutes later? I suspect all of this is attributed to the "do not overthink it - this is a movie" rationalization, but if there has ever been a satisfying explanation about all of this I'd sure be glad to hear it!

    I love TFA, and this thing is the only real beef I have with it. For me, this is the one WTF moment that throws me out of the zone and weakens my enjoyment of the film. I... I just can't seem to buy this scene...


    Help?
     
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  2. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    We don't know where they were at that time or how much time passed.
     
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  3. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    Thank you, Rieekan :)

    "It was a tear through hyperspace visible throughout the quadrant." Fair enough, I guess I can sort of buy that (hyperspace being magical and all). "Or something." LOL! My thought exactly ;)

    I'll try to archive this in the same box as "sound in space is alright; laa laa laa laa" :p
     
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  4. TheFirstOrder

    TheFirstOrder Rebel Trooper

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    -the base is mobile
    -the beams travels through "sub-hyperspace" so it can travel across the galaxy, punching holes in space
    -the explosion creates a rip in the time/space continuum, making the attack seen light years away

    I remember Snap saying that they built a "hyper light speed weapon"

    *note - in the novel, the base sucks in dark matter, rather than the sun
     
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  5. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel General

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    JJ and Kasdan intentionally left out exposition on minor things in order to focus on the main story line. One thing that happens in Star Wars movies a lot, and was done numerous times in TFA, is the implied passage of time. For example, in ANH the trip to Alderaan seemed to take no more time then a quick Lightsaber lesson. Luke traveled to Dagobah in what seemed minutes, Han and Leia seemed to traveled from Hoth to Bespin in no time... WITHOUT Hyperspace. But the fact is, a lot of time actually passed during those moments. But who wants to see a bunch of people sitting around talking for what may have been days or weeks in actual time?

    Now, in the case Kylo getting to Takodana right after the explosion of the Hosnian system, I admit this one is harder to except the implied passage of time. But as you can see from the video below, the Finalizer is not in the orbit of Starkiller. The beam, passing by the ship, is shown first coming from the blackness of space. So, one can "imply" that Kylo is very close to Takodana, and simply came out of lightspeed to witness the event. Once the beam travels past the ship they get back to the task at hand, which is getting back on their way to Takodana. If they were indeed close, a Star Map shows that they could have been camped out right between the 2 systems, the travel time could have been short in real time, allowing Kylo to arrive moments later.

    I think it is also important to remember one HUGE thing... This is Star Wars. Should we really be questioning the scientific legitimacy of space travel and planet destroying weapons, in a universe of lightsabers and the force? Lol

     

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  6. TheFirstOrder

    TheFirstOrder Rebel Trooper

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    I never noticed that before!... the part about the beam coming out of the blackness of space...
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    It distorts time and space according to the visual dictionary and the novelization.
     
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  8. animarcity

    animarcity Rebelscum

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    This has always bothered me so much, too! It's pretty much the only real gripe I have with TFA... and I really dislike the "Star Wars isn't sci-fi"-explanation :/
    I get that and I have no problem with sound in space, lightsabers, mystical magic etc. but in my opinion ignoring science should be done either to allow for story concepts (The Force) or to improve story flow (quick travel between planets) or because reality would seem counterintuitive for the audience and lessen the experience (sound in space). Seeing the SK beam from Takodana did exactly the opposite. It added nothing to the story and only confused the audience because everyone had to assume the planets getting destroyed are somehow right next to Takodana. I could potentially buy the techno-babble sub-hyperspace-distortion explanation but in that case they should have just made the whole sky turn red for a couple minutes. The people on Takodana could even see the flames of the explosions... that just doesn't make any sense, no matter how you try to twist your brain :(

    Maybe this scene bothers me so much because it is the biggest example of a general problem I have with TFA (which is still an overall 9/10 for me):
    It just feels too small! And I think it's because of the editing. If you pay attention you can see that almost every scene is cut such that there is no room whatsoever for timeskips. What I mean is, for example in ANH you had
    • Obi-Wan and Lukes journey to Mos Eisley could have taken several days for all we know and at least one overnight stop is canonical at the moment.
    • The Hyperspace jump from Tatooine to Alderaan may have taken several hours, possibly days.
    and there are lots of these things in all movies, even the prequels.
    In TFA however, the editing completely excludes the possibility for this. It's something like 30 minutes IN-UNIVERSE-TIME from Finn stumbling into Niima outpost to the crew landing on Takodana and that really massively emphasizes some of the more convenient plot elements, e.g.
    • Han and Chewie arrive over Jakku mere MINUTES after the Falcon's transponder started sending a signal. It would have made much more sense if the editing had somehow implied that Finn and Rey were drifting through empty space for a while before Han finds them.
    • The hangar bay of Han's freighter was just randomly directed such that they could jump directly to Takodana! It would have been better if they made a micro-jump to get away and then recollect and set directions for Takodana.
    • Same scene: It takes only a couple minutes from Jakku to Takodana (far edge of the outer rim to mid rim) which is a huge contradiction to lots of canon material and even what the earlier movies had implied. For example, in the Tarkin book, Tarkin's fastest yacht in the galaxy needs two weeks to get from the DS construction site back to Coruscant!

    ... and there is so much more. Sorry this has become quite a rant but as much as I love the movie overall, J.J.'s fantasy over basic logic attitude bothers me quite a bit. And it doesn't help that Pablo and the story group basically just go with "SW isn't sci-fi". This (contradictions in canon material) is the stuff they should pay attention to. Hell, let me do it, I don't even want payment! :mad:
     
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  9. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel General

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    You don't have to go straight in hyperspace. Direction changes are possible in hyper-tunneling, in order to bypass objects such as mapped gravity wells, ie stars and planets. See hyperspace route..

    Also, since hyperspace is a sub-dimension, normal physics relative to space-time doesn't apply. So speed in hyperspace does not relate in any way to speed in real space. What would take 100 years to traverse in real space at the speed of light, might only take 5 hours or less in hyperspace. Also, if you were to look at jumping to hyperspace as the same thing as creating a worm hole (Einstein-Rosen Bridge), and just needing to traverse the distance between point A and B, through the worm hole tunnel, then in reality it is possible that it takes exactly the same amount of time to go anywhere. I don't think that is the case however, as routes would not be needed. In a nutshell, relative distance in real vs hyperspace is not equal.

    [​IMG]
     
    #9 Crusifix, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
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