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The truth about Snoke (Attention: TLJ Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BobRoss, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Darth Fink

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    I haven't seen the movie yet myself so it feels like a bit of a force projection for me to join this conversation. Excuse me if I get anything wrong on the details as I try to contribute to your awesome theory:
    • I've heard that Kylo doesn't hold the lightsaber when it kills Snoke. So Kylo doesn't have the odd feeling of attacking a force projection like he did with Luke.
    • Luke apparently doesn't look the same (younger? shorter hair?) when he is a force projection. This means that, if the real Snoke is out there in the unknown regions, he could look different.
    • Did someone say the heroes are headed to the unknown regions at the end of TLJ? If so, that sounds like a set-up to me.
    • Let's assume Snoke is dead. That leaves us with Kylo and no other villains (is that right?). So now its just Supreme Leader Kylo with all of his dirty laundry already aired? Doesn't sound very interesting to me.
    • I am a Plagueis enthusiast but had all but given up hope that Snoke would be him. This thread is giving me hope. The text and images in the Visual Dictionary have also piqued my interest. Can't wait to see the film. As someone said earlier, that Plagueis is concealed from us just as he has been from everyone from Palpatine on down the years would be so... Plagueis.
    Can't wait to see TLJ on Saturday. I'll be sure to jump back on this thread after. Thanks for the awesome idea.
     
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  2. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Welcome! No need to apologise.

    1.Yes. He turns it on with the force. From a distance.
    2.yup.
    3.They are headed to the outer rim. It doesn't seem connected. Last scene screams "time jump" set up more than anything.
    4.Agreed. Kylo is interesting, and a non redemption arc might be done well. But what, entire plot of IX is heroes just defeating him to topple FO. No other stakes? They could introduce some. But Snoke's death was so baloney, it'd make a great twist. As for dead villains, Hux is still alive, and he gives Kylo a mutinous look of hatred at the end.
    5. I dunno you should ask @BobRoss. He seems to know more.
     
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  3. SkyloBen10

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    It has to be part of his 'training'
    for someone so wise and so powerful, snoke must have seen a possibility that kylo may have turned against him and planned accordingly for it.

    Remember kylo already tried to attack him at the beginning of the film directly after snoke taunted him.
    Almost like he was provoking him to attack, then brushed him off like nothing.
     
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  4. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Snoke also had 24/7 watch in his mind. I don't buy that Kylo hid his intention of killing him by using thoughts of Rey as a decoy. He seems too powerful to fall for that, and he'd orchestrated everything with their minds before.
     
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  5. Julius Fett

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    Some very interesting thoughts floating around regarding this possibility.

    I can see it going one way or the other, if I’m honest: IX could end with Rey defeating Kylo and that being it, or the reveal of someone having manipulated Kylo this deeply could still lead to an arc which isn’t just redemption: the First Order and the Resistance, Kylo and Rey, must team up to defeat the true villain once and for all.

    My gut reaction, though, was definitely that Snoke was part of something else entirely, and I half expected his “death” to awaken his true self elsewhere in the galaxy.

    I mean, as for Plagueis specifically...why couldn’t he have created Snoke in a similar vain to Anakin, but as a vessel to have projected himself into from afar?
     
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  6. Supreme Leader

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    his death seemed totally out of place and 9 would be rather boring if it's simply setting up Rey Vs Ben, who still isn't that much of villian. he didn't even kill Luke simply removed him from the equation, exactly as Snoke was hoping. so everything is going according to his, or whoever Snoke is, plan. with Skywalker out the way he can emerge from the darkness (unknown regions) in the final installment.
     
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  7. Withred

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    Omg! Redemption not just of Kylo, but entire first order! That'd be interesting and unique.

    Snoke just seemed like a gold robed old guy. Like the thrones and gold and excess and comfort was an extra shield to hide his true self away from prying eyes. Who expects a guy with a gold fetish to have so many secrets?

    I'm buying plaguis more and more too.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2017 ---
    Exactly, he can just come out and wreck Kylo's sh*t up stealth style. Probably a late film reveal, with little hints throughout, after letting Kylo dig himself deeper.
     
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  8. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebelscum

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    his main objective seemed to be wiping out all traces of the Jedi Order so Luke but now Rey as the seed of that. Kylo has that bond thing going on and actually wants to join with her, not much a setup for a showdown. Luke also knew about Snoke but didn't go into any sort of detail besides being the one who turned Ben. methinks Force Ghost Luke will have more to add re Snoke in Ep 9.
     
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  9. Withred

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    Actually that's the best motive I've heard. By making Kylo 100% dark he also removes any chances of bond ending well (if it still is there.)

    Snoke is like a large looming shadow over everything, with fingers in pies everywhere.

    Actually, Luke opening a new school while Snoke the dark lord was out there, seems to imply that he'd hidden himself well enough that even a master Jedi didn't notice his presence until it was too late. Snoke is really really good at hiding!
     
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  10. Aquila

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    If you continue with all such theories I think you may be (again) gravely disappointed after watching Ep. IX. The Last Jedi should totally lower all our expactations because it seems there is no huge whole-trilogy-spanning plan.
     
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  11. Withred

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    I'll answer you with some holy words of Nirvana:"It's fun to lose, and to pretend."

    TLJ never lowered my expectations, I thought it was pretty good and Rey Nobody fit the themes of it pretty well.

    Emperor was dealt with in third movie of OT, ST can have the same with Snoke.
     
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  12. Supreme Leader

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    Snoke implies he's aware of things at the universal level when he described how he planned everything and that Rey was the answer to Ben's darkness (ie force balancing itself). Sounds like someone whose been manipulating things at that level, if you ask me. Plus permanently creating a link between them, that's a pretty next level ability if ever there was one. So one minute he's aware of everything and the next he's offed, just like that. And in exactly the same way Vader turned and destroyed the Emperor, which he was also aware of. Naaah, not buying it at all.
     
    #72 Supreme Leader, Dec 15, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  13. Withred

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    #Snokeismygod.

    He's incredibly powerful. He spins Rey right around and forcefully manipulates her, he also manipulates Hux from miles away in an early scene.

    It would be another subversion if he came back from it. Like, yay we've killed big bad guy in second film-wait no, whoops, he's back in IX! Disney could have fun with marketing too.
     
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  14. Supreme Leader

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    honestly the way he goes down and what is offered regarding his intentions and level of manipulation/awareness in all this make me pretty certain he's returning in Ep 9. the real question is whether he's Darth Plagueis (tie up the Skywalker storyline neatly - JJ already said the prequels would be relevant in 9) or an ancient evil entity, which is just as likely at this point. either way they'll actually have to explain it this time around.
     
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  15. Withred

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    Hopefully they explain it well. Hoping JJ's prequel comment doesn't mean he is Jar Jar or something.

    "Shudders"

    I need some whiskey now.
     
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  16. christyper

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    Couple of things....

    if snoke is a projection, why was he a hologram in TFA? Why not project the whole time

    How come force ghosts can cause physical damage now (yoda hit Luke with his stick)?

    Yoda controlled the lightening strike but Obi Wan didn't help Luke at all other than advice in the OT.... on Hoth freezing to death, Obi could have helped out

    Did the kid at the end use the force to pull the broom towards him?

    Snoke almost certainly isn't dead but he used force lightening, can a projection do this??

    How come a powerful Jedi Master (assuming he finished training) die after a short projection? Sidious was convinced Luke would become more powerful than Vader.... Windu and Yoda said Anakin would be more powerful than both of them??

    Phasma can't be dead

    Kylo seems pretty poor with a light sabre, Mail / Vader / Sidious / Dukoo would have torn up those guards / Ren knights in seconds
     
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  17. Migatte no gokui

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    Are you saying that Kylo ren wouldn't make a great main villain ?? I wonder why ...
    I feel like I've said that 1000 times and I'll say it again, he is my fav character but how are we supposed to fear him as the main villain ?
    - Keeps showing remorse
    - gets bullied by Snoke (legend states that Snoke summoned Kylo ren many times just to "try" new jokes : 1guard chuckling = bad joke, 8 guards chuckling = awesome joke)
    - beaten by Rey on starkiller base.

    Lets hope he didn't become bad at it because of us ... I mean, you can be camera shy and all, crumble under pressure so...
     
  18. Supreme Leader

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    plus he created the bond so would surely know the end result of it - ben & rey becoming closer, ben's desire to overthrow him with her. and the ability to bridge minds is more impressive than anything else in the movie, no? snoke is playing ben all the way along, the death easily chalked up as a projection considering we're introduced to that ability via Luke. snoke is thinking big picture...now with Luke seemingly out the way we'll see his real form in Ep 9.
     
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  19. Juniper

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    There's a shot of Snoke after he's died showing his facial expression, with his face quite close in the shot (tongue out...Etc)

    He's definitely dead and not a projection.
     
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    It's nice of him to project his dismembered body still lying on the floor with this pathetic looking face when Hux arrived. Just as emperor did not predict Vader turning on him - the same Snoke did not. Han wanted to help Kylo because he had no idea that "doing what had to be done" meant killing him. And Snoke didn't realise that when Kylo wanted to kill his enemy - this enemy was him, not Rey. He sensed correct emotions and plans, but didn't see whom exactly Kylo had in mind. And when it turned out Kylo meant him - he was clearly shocked.

    It really seems that Snoke was just a placeholder. We all focused on him being the top villain, created theories etc but his role was just to get killed by Kylo who because of that became the Supreme Leader himself. No deeper, hidden meaning. Just that.

    Maybe, just maybe, JJ will try to add more background to Snoke or even revive him somehow to please the fans disappointed by TLJ (because it seems they didn't have any consistent plan for entire trilogy written) but that would be quite cheap. I expect Kylo to be the final villain. Maybe he'll be redeemed somehow, maybe not. But I think we should prepare for the end of Skywalker saga.
     
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