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SPOILER The truth about Snoke (Attention: TLJ Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BobRoss, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Juniper

    Juniper Rebel Commander

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    Exactly, the Clone Wars and Rebels were both side shows not aimed at the mass billion pound grossing general audience.

    There’s a reason why he was only brought back on those occasions and not Episode 2 or 3 as coming back from being cut in half is a little unbelievable to people not fully engrossed in the Star Wars lore.

    It’s great to have theories and I don’t mean to come across as dismissive but this trilogy isn’t going to give us anything massively complex, explaning a resurrection would massively deviate from its current course and muddle the waters even more. The course is set now for Ren’s rule and ultimate (you’d think!!) downfall.

    The film does hint at a massive power struggle between Ren and Hux (Hux reaching for his blaster in the throne room for example) but towards the end of the film Hux has been fully put in his place/bullied by Ren.
     
  2. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    With all due respect, we just saw Luke project himself through the Force from some distant place in the galaxy. Even if that place was strong in the Force, there are quite a few complexities added to canon from this film, in my opinion.
     
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  3. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    +1 and amen.

    Luke projecting himself highlights the fact that force projection is possible. And considering how powerful Snoke is, it would be a logical leap for him to possible be utilising the same mechanic, except even more advance. Maybe he just does it when people need to speak to him face to face? So he's not straining all the time.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2017 ---
    I disagree. It goes to show that they may well use it, as Snoke has no backstory revealed in IX. Maul had a backstory, albeit told badly.

    If they tie resurrection explanation with Snoke background reveal, it's two birds with one stone and could easily work. Seriously complex plot twists can work if set out well, and the whole force projection thing with Luke, could well foreshadow that Snoke might be doing the same thing. It wouldn't muddy the waters then.

    Hux has become pure comic relief. I like Domhall Gleeson as an actor and all, but he is seriously underused with the jokes. It'll be boring as hell in IX if his entire purpose is to die in a humorous coup scene. Which I foresee.
     
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  4. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    The force projection shows exactly what its user intends too. Luke wanted to delay Kylo, Snoke wanted to fake a convincing death. This manipulation takes place inside the heads of those wo are manipulated (note how C3-P0 doesn't react to force projection Luke at all, only Leia sees him). And since they take place inside the heads of those manipulated there's nothing that can't be faked, including a gruesome death.
     
    #104 BobRoss, Dec 15, 2017
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    He cut him in half. We see Snoke’s dead, rotting body. I can’t see that being a projection. If it is then we would forever question the death of anyone.

    Snoke is dead. Long live the Supreme Leader!
     
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  6. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebelscum

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    also nobody reacts at a force level, the most powerful darkside user in the galaxy (he throws around rey & kylo with ease) goes down and not even a flinch. you'd expect those strong in the force to be able to feel it, particularly luke, but nothing.

    thinking back i think the fact rey & kylo are still linked at the end is another allusion to the fact he's still out there. and he uses force lightning, anyone? :D
     
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  7. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    So why does there always have to be a twist on top of a twist in fan theories:confused:.

    My guess is that the force projection is the extension of the force ghost thing when you are still living, a power only a Jedi can achieve because you need selflessness. The dark side pendant is force choking a Hux through from a distance.

    So I guess the dark side can't do it.
     
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  8. BobRoss

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    They don't have to expose all of the things I mentioned in detail. It's like watching the movie "Teh Sixth Sense" once the twist is explained, suddenly you'll start noticing all kinds of strange things when rewatching the movie. This would be a similar situation. Once Snoke tells us he has been an illusion in IX, you will notice all the little details when rewatching TLJ.
     
    #108 BobRoss, Dec 15, 2017
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  9. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebelscum

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    not really the only possibilities for pulling something like that off would be Luke & Snoke - most powerful force users in the galaxy. so it totally fits within what we know.
     
  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    There’s a chance. There’s a chance in that anything can happen. But if you look at the story now, what is the point in Snoke returning? He was clearly there to set up Supreme Leader Ren - as many people did predict. I was a Plagueis stalwart but am happy to let that go now for what we got - just as long as we get an explanation for Snoke that makes sense at some point.
     
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  11. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebelscum

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    the point in him returning (and his masterplan) is to wipe out the Jedi, presumably with some type of universal dark side agenda. pretty sure we're told this in the movie, he says something along the lines of wanting to wipe out the Jedi. so with Luke gone, whom he seemed pretty scared of, it's just Rey and possibly Kylo to take care of. time for the real Mr Snokey (who could easily be Plagueis) to come out :D

    there's a lot that doesn't line up between his seeming level of manipulation and level of force ability, critique of the emperor/vader for him to be fooled like that. that's my take anyway, he'll be back.
     
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  12. BobRoss

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    This is where I have to disagree. There is no reason why Kylo could not have started out as the Supreme leader in the first place. He could have been Supreme leader from the very first time we've heard of him and nothing would change. In addition to that Kylo would lack a clear motif throughout TFA and half of TLJ if Snoke wasn't there to give him orders. It would be weird to eliminate all the initial motivating factors our main characters had after 1,5 movies and reset them to a point where the Sequel Trilogy could have started out to begin with.
     
    #112 BobRoss, Dec 15, 2017
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  13. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Maybe it'll clue them in, in IX.

    It just stinks of bad writing, unless it's a setup. And Rian was so good with everything else Rey/Kylo/Luke wise, it feels like misdirection.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2017 ---
    "He'll be back"? So he's a terminator?
     
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  14. Supreme Leader

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    if the real evil is out there there's still a motivation for Rey needing to turn Ben back to the light so they can defeat it together, probably the only way.

    we're shown that force projection is a thing, we're shown Snoke can throw people around at a distance, he can bridge minds, do pretty much anything. he'll be back!
     
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  15. Zyloren

    Zyloren Clone Commander

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    It would make sense for Snoke to use force projection, as mentioned, he can already communicate, influence and even wield conventional force powers over great distances. Not to mention, Luke learnt how to force project in a temple that literally has a picture of Snoke in it.
     
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  16. Withred

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    That means he IS Mecha-Snoke! I wonder if Snoke can do magic tricks as well, if he's so powerful.

    I hope Ben redemption does happen, to see Adam's acting ability on show as well as story reasons. He will knock it out of the park if he can play redeemedBen!
     
  17. GhostofQuiGonJinn

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    To those questioning the validity of this theory, I reiterate:

    In an article from the beginning fo December, interviewing Andy Serkis, Serkis says:

    “Snoke is the dark end of the Force.. he has his own agenda. He’s a cruel manipulator."

    He was then asked whether Snoke was more powerful than Darth Vader or Palpatine. Remember, Anakin (before he became Vader) was supposed to have the potential to balance the Force and had an incredible Midichlorian rating. He was asked “Is Snoke really more powerful than that?”

    Serkis gave the unequivocal reply: “Oh, without question. He has limitless resources, let’s put in that way.”

    Then there is this:

    “Plagueis was a potent sorcerer that could create Force-illusions that encroached on reality so that even Sidious couldn't say if it was reality or a mere illusion.”

    “Skilled in the more unorthodox applications of the force, Darth Plagueis was skilled in conjuring Force illusions, convincing enough to fool even Palpatine.”

    Then there is The Last Jedi Visual Dictionary, which tells us that Snoke masks his true form from everyone, including from those “select few” that are able to converse with him directly (that would include Kylo). That means that even Kylo has not seen Snoke in his “true form”.
     
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  18. Empire Jo

    Empire Jo Force Sensitive

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    Or maybe the Force bond was created through the interrogation in TFA, and subsequent interactions between Rey and Kylo, and Snoke just claimed that he instigated it. It's plausible that he knew about the Reylo Force bond, as he kept pretty close watch on Kylo's mind/feelings, but these dark siders are crafty and you can't take them at face value. Snoke was obviously a master manipulator.

    Maybe Snoke was strong in the Force, maybe he was all Smoke and mirrors...
    (Now where did we see the use of mirror symbolism... oh yes, when Rey tries to enter the Sith/Bogan temple and thinks she will see her parents, but only sees her infinite self... hmm, how very interesting...)

    Anyway, juries still out for me on whether we'll see Smoke in the final trilogy film. It all seems about Rey and Kylo now, so if he can be used to further their character development without taking the shine or focus off of them, he may be back. Have to go see the next movie I guess.
     
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  19. BobRoss

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    I took a closer look at what you said and I found some interesting stuff. Here's what I found in the Visual Dictionary and why I think it might be relevant.
    mosaic.png T
    There is a resemblance between the alien portrayed in the mosaic and Snoke. I think it's also interesting how the alien portrayed in the mosaci is described as "the first of the order" and how he is in a state of balance. Snoke seems to be at least aware of the concept of balance as he points out in TLJ that the rise of dark will lead to a reaction of the ligth (and vice versa). The important thing however is the location of the mosaic. It's in the very same temple Luke conjures the force projection so if this mosaic indeed portrais Snoke then we can assume he is familiar with the force projection technique and might even be the inventor of it.
     
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  20. Zyloren

    Zyloren Clone Commander

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    Coming back round full circle to Darth Plagueis would be a perfect end to the saga. His ability to deceive, manipulate and create illusions is just laid on so thick. His power would be immense because he manipulated the force itself to create the Skywalker family. The Skywalker family are a complete disruption to the force, they never brought balance and Anakin was never the chosen one (because he was created by Plagueis, he is an artificial creation of the force). But just as Anakin was an artificial creation of the force (an abomination, a disease... a Plague[is]), Rey is the natural embodiment of the force, she is the true chosen one that will bring balance by ending the Skywalker line. It would be a perfect way for the saga to end by both Rey and Kylo working together to end Plagueis, ideally they would both be killed also (ultimate and epic sacrifice to redeem Kylo and make us weep for Rey) otherwise the natural order would still be left out of whack.

    Plagueis creating Anakin is the "rise of the dark" (ending in Kylo) and Rey is the "reaction of the light". It is fitting for all of these characters to finally return to and become one with the force and to hopefully leave the galaxy with some opportunity for peace (for a short while at least). There will always be conflict until they return to the force, which they were created from. Of course, like many before there is the opportunity for them to retain some personality when they return to the force and even if they die (which I believe would be the correct way to end it all) there is still scope for them to appear from time to time.
     
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