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The Ultimate Snoke Theory

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Dec 7, 2017.

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  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    This is heavily based upon recent spoilers so read with caution!

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    I've always wondered why each Sith, from Bane onwards, was happy to be a part of a 1000yr old plan that they were unable to bring to a close themselves. I think the idea of the "prime Jedi", mentioned in TLJ VD, provides an explanation for this as well as who Snoke is.

    Is it because Snoke is the so called source of the dark side (not actually that, but perceived as it by Sidious) and the rule of two was always about passing himself on to the next more powerful apprentice?

    Let’s say the prime Jedi was destroyed by the ancient Jedi (because he always created conflict - and this new faction had different beliefs to the prime Jedi) and then the Jedi/Sith war began. The Jedi destroyed the Sith and then rejected the dark side entirely. But the prime Jedi had in fact survived and possessed Bane...

    Bane then established what was needed - a plan to resurrect the prime Jedi...

    Over the years his spirit jumps from Sith to Sith...eventually leaving Vader and going into the abyss. This then meant he had to rise in his old form. And now he is after a new, perfect being - Ben Solo.

    Each Sith was part of a bigger plan to restore the prime Jedi.

    Bane started rule of two...Plagueis learned how to create the perfect being (his death cheating abilities coming in handy later for Snoke). Palpatine destroyed the Jedi. The Prime Jedi, Snoke, would then seek to take over the chosen one - but Vader got all beat up and so Luke was the next target. But he of course rejected the Dark Side and so this fate fell upon Ben Solo.

    I'd also wager that Bane kept Snoke's body on Jakku - and this is what Palpatine found.
    Alternatively, abandon the Force possession stuff and just have it that the idea was that the Sith served the Prime Jedi and we seeking his eventual resurrection when the perfect being is found for him to take over. Wasn't the original original Snoke leak spoken of as "Invasion of the Body Snatchers..."? There's always some truth in legends.

    Or I could be well off and am still clueless!

    #PlagueisSortOfConfirmed
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 7, 2017 ---
    The Sith weren’t just power hungry individuals. They believed in The Prime Jedi. They hated the new Jedi not because of the Sith war but because they destroyed the Prime jedi!

    It. All. Makes. Sense. Now.

    The original Jedi made the mistake of trying to end conflict for all time.

    They thought they had achieved it.

    But it went horribly bad.

    Luke has realised this. And wants to end the Jedi. Ben, tricked by Snoke, thinks along the same lines but that he can rule as the Prime Jedi.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 7, 2017 ---
    Opening shot and line of TFA trailer:

    Jakku: There has been an awakening.

    It's Snoke. It's always been Snoke!
    His body was buried there by Bane.
     
    #1 master_shaitan, Dec 7, 2017
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  2. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    His body was excavated on Jakku and remained in one Palpatine’s laboratories.

    #PLAGUIESUNCONFIRMED

    There. I said it.
     
    #2 ITG, Dec 7, 2017
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  3. CaptainPhastastic

    CaptainPhastastic Rebel Official

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    It's interesting, but ultimately too much for casual fans and general audience people to buy. Star Wars is light sci fi/light fantasy. It's more of a Western/adventure serial set in space. Ancient spirits jumping bodies, etc., and the other plot points you introduce are more hard fantasy, which is something the general audience doesn't really go in for. In addition, your theory is a LOT to digest for casual audiences. It's very complicated and I don't see them being able to set it up enough to tell it decently in 2.5 hours.

    Don't get me wrong. I like your theory. However, I suspect we'll get a much more dumbed down version of "ancient Force user" for Snoke, and then side material such as novels and comics will be used to fill in all of the details later.
     
    #3 CaptainPhastastic, Dec 7, 2017
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  4. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Plausible scenario. Jakku is critically important planet, and Palpatine indeed exscavated something,for which he said was important 1000 years before, and will be important again.....

    ... And that "something" has never been explained in the details ("observatory"), bult on "something" that was present there already.... we know that in the oldest corridors of this Jakku observatory there were elements of ancient millenia old Predori technology.(Aftemath Empire's end).
     
    #4 McDiarmid, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Force ghosts are a thing, though - is Force possession such a big step? And to be honest, I'm not suggesting that absolutely happened - just that Snoke existed in some form that enabled him to manipulate the Sith order since Bane.

    And yes, it is complicated - though I'm not sure how much has to be stated on screen for the GA. The explanations have already been woven somewhat into the accompanying novels. But there has to be some explanation for Snoke, whoever he is. And I would imagine that, if he is the Prime Jedi fallen, then this would be the way to go - enabling them to tie the Sith history directly into him. He really would be the big bad - part of everything that Maz describes in TFA.

    It just seems to tie into everything...
     
    #5 master_shaitan, Dec 7, 2017
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  6. lawton

    lawton Rebel Trooper

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    Not sure what I think on this theory but it is possible. With the name "Prime Jedi" I keep thinking Snoke maybe is an immortal being as far as not being able to die from old age anyway. That he originally was a lightside version of something like Bendu (Lucifer before his fall? - Star Wars version anyway) that turned to the darkside for whatever reason.
     
    #6 lawton, Dec 7, 2017
  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I just think he was the original super-Jedi type character. I remember reading somewhere (maybe non-canon now) that the Jedi of old knew how to retain identity after death but that this was forgotten until Qui Gon re-learned it.

    I'm wondering if this provides a reason for how Snoke could've survived for so long without his own living body? Then, when his plan goes to pot (Sith take over and possession of chosen one) he has to return to the galaxy in his old body, seeking a new being to take over. My view is that he might only be able to do this once (take over a new body) and before that he was simply manipulating the Sith from his "spirit" form?

    Really, I just love the idea that the Jedi and Sith split really happened because they differed in opinion over the "Prime-Jedi". The Jedi that broke away originally thought that they could end conflict by destroying the Prime Jedi and his followers. The Sith breakaway were the Jedi who supported the prime-Jedi. It would explain why the Sith wanted revenge so badly vs the Jedi. I never bought the idea fully that it was just because they used the Force differently. It seemed a bit weak. But if there was some God-like figure the Sith followed...then their hate of the Jedi that destroyed him might make more sense.

    I dunno. Spitballing all over the place, right now!
     
    #7 master_shaitan, Dec 7, 2017
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  8. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Since now we have confirmation of theory that Snoke's Pretorian Guards are in fact advanced sentinel droids, we can ad adittional weight to OP .

    In the Aftermath Empire's end, inactive sentinel droids of ancient civilization are hinted to have been spotted in the walls in the Observatory of Jakku.

    This same type of droids in the Atermath Life Debt served as a prison droids in ancient crashed ship "Ashmead's lock".

    Was Snoke in fact somehow indeed imprisoned on Jakku?
     
    #8 McDiarmid, Dec 7, 2017
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  9. lawton

    lawton Rebel Trooper

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    I will say its interesting about these time periods given and with Palpatine saying Jakku was important 1,000 years ago and it will be again. With the VD putting Bane's timeline clearly at that point now it seems that time period had some major stuff going on possibly. Yoda would have been close enough to that period to have heard the basic history. Maz would know I guess. That Jedi Master's statement about thinking the Sith had been extinct for a 1,000 years in Ep 1 doesn't really go along with Yoda's statement about there always being 2 of them since that is now canon I guess when the Banite Sith started.
     
    #9 lawton, Dec 7, 2017
  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Yeah - it was like they're were building up to something in Palpatine's reign - again pointing to the chosen one being found.

    Re: Yoda and the rule of two. I think the story is that the Jedi wiped out the Sith, then Bane started the rule of 2 - but the Jedi discovered this and thought they destroyed Bane, but had failed.
     
    #10 master_shaitan, Dec 7, 2017
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  11. CaptainPhastastic

    CaptainPhastastic Rebel Official

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    Wait...when was there confirmation that the Praetorian Guards are droids???
     
    #11 CaptainPhastastic, Dec 7, 2017
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  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    There wasn't. I just saw that the word "sentinel" was used to describe them and @McDiarmid took that to mean "sentinel droid". It's possible but certainly not confirmed.
     
    #12 master_shaitan, Dec 7, 2017
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  13. Darth Fink

    Darth Fink Rebel General

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    We have confirmation that they’re droids?
     
    #13 Darth Fink, Dec 7, 2017
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  14. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Yes, so called sentinels, an advanced semi-conscious( in most advanced cases- conscious) droids.

    I made research into it as a hypothesis months before, and the theory has been proven correct today.

    Snoke's Pretorian guards are sentinel battle droids
     
    #14 McDiarmid, Dec 7, 2017
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  15. Jedihopper

    Jedihopper Rebel General

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    Great post.

    I came away with something similar. Whether his life force lived on and kept jumping hosts Or he was just resurrected - Snoke being the Prime Jedi (and thus, having conflict with the Last Jedi - Luke) is a great twist.

    Can’t believe it but - I agree with you Shaitan!

    At least on this.:D
     
    #15 Jedihopper, Dec 7, 2017
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  16. Old Fossil

    Old Fossil Rebel General

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    Love this.

    Hate this.(but probably accurate, sadly.)
     
    #16 Old Fossil, Dec 7, 2017
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  17. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    This weekend I should ask my local psychic who's Rey's parents are and see if she's worth her salt... my apologies, wrong thread I mean who Snoke is...hahaha
     
    #17 Rogues1138, Dec 7, 2017
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  18. Flyboy

    Flyboy Jedi Commander

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    [​IMG]
     
    #18 Flyboy, Dec 7, 2017
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  19. onetrickpony

    onetrickpony Rebel General

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    I agree with what Captainphastastic wrote.This sounds to complicated for the average star wars lover to which I count myself.I love the movies and their stories.But not that much that I read books or comics about it..later or before.
    Im already starting to be confused and intrigued by this prime jedi notion and snoke playing a big part of it.
    As a simple star wars lover im like...aren't the Jedi the good guys and how this all rhymes with snoke if he now is the prime jedi.

    To me the force is the force.It is life energy.It can be used for good or bad.One can do wonderfully things with it while one can also do terrible things with it.The force itself is not polarized.That for me is what the Bindu is all about for example.Snoke may very well be the prime jedi,that is having good intentions..but as many of you may be aware of...good intentions can be a pathway to hell.

    In the light of prime jedi relating to snoke.I think that he might have been the first to start an order or wisdom school of the force.He probably comprehends the force to be pure energy which is not polarized but the user..agent or medium polarize it to his her whilm.As such say the power of fire does not have to be labled as being bad...evil.It is in which circumstances and situations it is used or applied to which makes it an actvof evil or good.Snoke strikes me as contempt,proud in a suave livid layed back kind of way contrary to the dry,cold calculating emperor.I think snoke displays this way of behaviour because he is the originator of the wisdomschool of the force,his stance probably is that only he understands the force in the proper way.The late Jedis and Sith are probably viewed by snoke in a resentful kind of way as a form of disillusioned(weak yet dangerous)heretics.

    He would eradicate all of the heretics of the force and bring back order and as such peace...with him as a spiritual priest king of sorts (he is wise).From his point of view this is good intention and benevolence,because the late jedis and siths have only brought wars and tragedy in the galaxy.Probably during snokes previous domain or time there was somekind of order or peace.Makes one wonder what happend that changed all that and howcome snoke looks so demolished.Maybe that time will be dealt with by Rian in his new triology?
     
    #19 onetrickpony, Dec 8, 2017
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  20. Migatte no gokui

    Migatte no gokui Rebelscum

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    Is this really confirmed ? Or ... mikezerohconfirmed ?
     
    #20 Migatte no gokui, Dec 8, 2017
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