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The unsaid "problem" with ROS...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by HothLeia, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    You do know that it was a force projection right...? It was already established that using that amount of 'force power' so to speak could kill you, Jedi dying at will is nothing new.
     
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  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Somebody missed the point by about 10,000 miles.
     
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  3. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Rebel General

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    So, is Palpatine really gone? Since he survived RoTJ I don't see anything that shows us this death is permanent and no reason he can't return again. (emperor)
     
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  4. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    But her abilities come from Palpatine, and the fact that she's his granddaughter is certainly going to get more clicks on an internet far, far away than her name. Remember, few knew who Luke Skywalker was by the start of the sequels. They were faded legends, just bit players in an enormous conflict- an interpretation that was completely new and rather shocking when you consider the end of ROTJ.

    For most people, that's true. But the Force seems to be inherited, and that didn't come from the Skywalkers.
    ...............
    I think I know what they were trying to accomplish with this movie- end the Skywalker saga without really ending it, that is, keep the spirit of the best parts of the Skywalker lineage alive without there really being any Skywalkers around. But the fact remains that for three movies we watched Rey, who was not a Skywalker through all three movies (and in fact fought against the only Skywalker heir), become ascendent. For me, the fact that she decides to take the Skywalker name at the end doesn't really fix that flaw. It's a facile attempt to retcon the entire trilogy in the last sentence of the saga.
     
  5. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    It's not about where your abilities come from. It's about how you use them.

    Who besides Palpatine, Ben, Luke and Leia knew that Rey was a Palpatine anyway? That secret died with all of them.
     
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  6. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    We know.
     
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  7. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    The last 'blood' Skywalker saved a Palpatine in both the literal (actual life) and figurative/mythological (from the Dark side) sense.
     
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  8. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    The Force Awakens is the only film in the Sequel Trilogy whose title does not refer to both Rey and a member of the Skywalker family, because The Last Jedi refers to both her and Luke, and The Rise of skywalker refers to both her and Ben, and it's yet another piece of evidence that the people who think the Sequel Trilogy didn't have a cohesive and coherent story because it didn't follow a predetermined arc-outline are mistaken.
     
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  9. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    But we’re not on an internet far, far away. And should we care?
     
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  10. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    All the Sith were destroyed on Exegol. No more cloning, or dark, secret techniques that only they knew and which they used to give Sidious’s spirit a vessel. As far as we know.
     
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  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    That's my take on it.

    Really, with any media that's remotely fantastical, you're gonna have the "how do you know they're really dead this time" discussion. That's just kinda the nature of things, and that's fair. Even in ROTJ, lots of fans (and multimedia writers) have speculated on Palpatine's survival.

    And I get that TRos kinda further breached the sense of trust with this between viewer and storyteller by bringing Palps back in the first place.

    But from what we see on screen, without meta influence, we're pretty clearly meant to believe that Palpatine really is done this time.
     
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  12. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    It just really takes the piss out of any death on screen now. Same with Maul's return (never should have been killed but that's a different story).
    No one is ever really dead. Except the good guys. They're dead. Bad guys get to keep coming back because that's just easier than making a new bad guy, apparently.
     
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  13. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    While the title of this thread made me think something completely different, this thread and the OP are completely and totally spot-on in recognizing that Leia really was the penultimate character for this movie and in many ways, the entire saga. There is another. Indeed.

    We now fully understand what Yoda meant and what Leia was intended to become. For this reason alone, I actually think that what JJ was able to accomplish in this movie is rather remarkable, if not miraculous, given the untimely death of Carrie. It is certainly quite the question to ponder what could have been, but understanding the real life difficulty in completing the saga knowing what the end game and plan (yes, there was a plan) was, I can only say that I am very satisfied with the end result.

    For me, each of the OT heroes embodied a characteristic of the entire franchise which explains why I think most of us love Star Wars (I know it is why I do): Luke represented power (of hope, The Force, or perhaps just the discovery of unexplained faith in a higher power, so to speak), Han represented the wit, humor and charm, and Leia represented the heart and soul. I always admired Luke and associated with and liked Han best, but always loved Leia. Specifically for those attributes. (And I see those same attributes in the new ST characters in a similar way although a bit of each element in each character: Rey is the power, Poe is the wit & charm, and Finn is the heart and soul - the one who kept his moral compass despite his counter-programming, although you could argue that Rey also has the heart & soul despite her origins... I didn't really feel it though until this last movie in the ST).

    Knowing that Star Wars (and the in-universe cause!) had seemingly lost its heart and soul when Carrie died, it sure appeared to be an insurmountable task to finish this story without her. I am pretty sure they all described it in so many terms. I am just grateful for the fact that they were still able to complete the saga in a way that honored Carrie, this vision, and kept the heart and soul of Star Wars alive (for me, at least).

    Finally, I find the whole discussion about KK's and others' decisions on how to deal with Carrie's passing in the last episode strangely funny really... In particular, they said they would not CGI Leia, but that is exactly what they did in the flashback Jedi training scenes. Unless I am mistaken, they did not have the footage of her to de-age her like in The Irishman. They kept their word about not re-casting Leia, which to me would have been the worst decision. Carrie Fisher IS Leia. They did what they had to do to finish the saga, in my mind working masterfully with what they had. Could it have been better if they had Carrie Fisher available? Probably, but I am quite satisfied with what we got.
     
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  14. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    Palpatine wasn’t destroyed on screen in ROTJ. He was destroyed off screen, as far as we knew. TROS belatedly reveals the dark side powers that ROTS alluded to as having preserved Palpatines spirit after he died. But the entire society which practiced this has now been totally annihilated. As far as we know.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The "we didn't see it on screen" cliche is a lazy way of just saying "we couldn't think of anything else" he literally causes an explosion. That mother trucker DIED.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    But then that leaves out the possibility of Episode XV to focus on the glorious return of Ratts Tyrell

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    You never know. You never actually see Hans Gruber's body at the end of Die Hard. He could be in the next movie!
     
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  18. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    I can't believe Leia cared more for Rey than her own son, full stop. She might have become like a daughter to her, but I can't believe Rey outranked Ben in any way. Maybe it's just your wording here, however, and that's not what you mean.
     
  19. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    Nobody's denying he died.

    So did Ben Kenobi in A New Hope. Midway through production Lucas decided that the movie needed a death at a certain point of the film, for dramatic and emotional purposes. But he also needed Ben to guide Luke in the final battle. The solution, kill Ben but then he lives on.

    I don't know about him "literally" causing an explosion. There was an effect akin to his force lightning coming from where he went out of sight.

    Maybe it is cliche. But seems to have been far less objectionable to people who got more of Holmes and Moriarty after they went over the falls and out of sight, presumed dead.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2020 ---
    What makes you say she cared more for Rey?
     
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  20. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    They didn't use CGI/De-Aging technology on that scene. That scene was taken from an unused footage from the original trilogy. SWNN had an article about it a couple weeks ago.

    https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....ought-princess-leia-back-one-last-time.57260/
     
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