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Theory on RJ's TLJ subversions.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Sparafucile, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I disagree. A lot of movies, including some Star Wars movies, have some degree of fan service in them.

    Please note that I am not saying that a little fan service is necessarily a bad thing. JJ, for example, knows what fans like and want fans want to see and he does a good job with it. I also believe a lot of creative decisions in E2 and E3 were influenced by fan sentiment regarding E1.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2018 ---
    Jar Jar was not an inconsequential character in E1. I believe that the fandom's reaction to Jar Jar led Lucas to tone down his role significantly in E2 and E3.

    If, suppose, Jar Jar was an extremely popular character after E1, do you really think his role in E2 and E3 would have been so thoroughly diminished?
     
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  2. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Sorry, I don’t really know what E1 E2 and E3 mean. Are they the prequels? I must admit I don’t know them very well... my memory is that jar jar was dispensable in those films, but sure I may be wrong.

    I don’t mean to say that writers don’t do fan service or are unaware of what makes the fans tick, but many SW’s fans have such very specific demands about the trajectory of characters and the details they want to see on screen, who lives, who dies, who should have lived, who should have died, no Reylo, Reylo, Knights of Ren, Rose out, Luke in. People’s opinions about the ST are contradictory at best. JJ could not possibly please everyone. So far he’s done quite well for the fans. He has brought this universe back to us with the help of RJ, new characters, creatures and robots. There will be fan service in ep ix I’m sure, some knowing wink here and there, but right now I honestly think the best service JJ could do us fans is to walk away from all the noise and make the epic film he wants and is capable to make.
     
    #62 Kylocity, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  3. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    TLJ did underperform. Every analyst I could find estimated the BO to be a lot higher (1,6Bn in a worst case scenaro according to forbes). So yeah it did underperform which is also indicated by the quickest drop n BO in the history of SW. TLJ started with 90% BO of TFA on opening weekend but then dropped to only 60% total BO of TFA. THe IP of Star Wars is extremely strong. It is basically impossible for a SW movie to not make money but TLJ didn't even come close to the initial expectations so it underperperfomred.

    Do you remember the amount of footage in R1 trailers we never got to see in the movie? Fully rendered scenes, basically ready to be shown in cincema and how many of them were cut? Do you remember when a second director was hired for R1 to do the reshoots and help out Gareth Edwards? R1 didn't have reshoots to a degree almost every Blockbuster these days have. The amount of finished scenes indicate that there were some major changes done during the reshoots. Cutting scenes from a move happens frequently but cutting scenes with fully rendered scenes which you previously even used in trailers indicates massive amounts of changes. And it's not like the extend of these changes hasn't been publicly discussed. So I'm neither disingenious nor do I not know what I am talking about.
     
  4. Darth Garth

    Darth Garth Rebel General

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    It didn't really shock or surprise me, it just made me angry. Some parts of the film were great, the Throne Room being one, but for the most part I was just like "Really? okay, cool?" In TESB people were like "OMFG!!!!!" big difference.
     
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  5. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    On the first point I'll actually provide an article rather than just giving data without proof. Every analyst I can find says the movie performed almost exactly as predicted. Now if you want to call a 37% drop from the TFA box office when it was supposed to be a 30% drop an under performance then that's fine. However, I can't find a single analyst that thought TLJ was only going to drop 22% from TFA. That's probably never been done in the case of any sequel as far as I'm aware. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...med-for-performing-as-predicted/#1fa59e6b815d

    For the second point I'll refer to my original post, I was replying specifically to your point about the reshoot being expensive not extensive. Sure we'll never know the full extent of the reshoots but I assume it's basically the whole third act. That is an extensive reshoot but not necessarily an expensive one.

    EDIT: Boondock Saints II made 300x the original's box office sales so I definitely should've said blockbuster sequel.
     
    #65 Dr Jerrone, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  6. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    This was always going to be a difficult move to project simply because we don't have enough data. TLJ did better the opening weekend than expected. That probably contributed to the second week drop (people desperate to avoid spoilers). Plus, the way the holiday fell, middle episode effect, etc. People can cherry pick it any way they want. The film was a critic and boxoffice success and most people liked it.

    As Lucasfilm keeps pushing out content we can expect the box office numbers to decrease get in line with average Marvel films.

    @nightangel is your sole existence on this forum now to disagree with posts? I've ignored you and quit responding to your constant misery, but I notice you keep rating my posts "disagree" or worse. All of this simply because you don't like a movie? :rolleyes:
     
    #66 DailyPlunge, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  7. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I remember that 1.6 billion figure. It was also reported here:

    http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/26/star-wars-last-jedi-box-office-billion-worldwide/

    Honestly if Rian hadn't leaned into the subversion, they probably would've hit that target easily. I hope his vision was worth the $300 mil they left on the table. As I have mentioned before, I don't think we have seen the last of the impact of this movie. I think TLJ had a tail wind created by the TFA mystery boxes that are now being roundly derided. I am confident that a significant portion of domestic ticket sales went to fans who had purchased multiple viewings of TLJ sight-unseen. I also think a significant portion of domestic ticket sales represent people's attempt to "figure out how to like the movie" or at least "understand it so they didn't dislike" through multiple viewings.

    As a result of the disappointment and disenchantment, I think instead of being provided a tail wind by TLJ, EPIX is going to experience a head wind, where hard core fans who have had their faith shaken, take a wait and see approach before they turn their usual unlimited enthusiasm into SW Box Office ticket sales. So EPIX is likely to have a smaller than usual opening weekend, but depending on what type of movie JJ puts together, have a larger than usual 2nd and 3rd weekend take.
     
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  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    great post, JJ will bring back the fun to ep.9, Luke will be a force ghost, he will play it safe, fan service and all, to end this trilogy. i loved what RJ did with 8 but sw fans just want the same thing a bit more camouflaged. the same fans that complained about 7, a so-called rehash look forward to JJ bringing back the fun, cough (kristian harloff) cough...
     
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  9. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    well i think you in the minority, most people from both all sides whether they liked, loved, hated or in diffrent to the film where very shocked and surprised by many things that happned in the film and choices that were made.
     
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