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They Aren't Just Copying. This Is How Star Wars Has Always Worked.

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by Jayson, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    With every film release since ROTJ, I've listened to people complain about the films just copying itself.
    Usually, this is said as a complaint.

    And every time a new film comes out, it's as if folks forgot about the same conversations of the past and are once again complaining.

    This is consequent of the members of the conversations often being different over time, but it's incredibly surprising to me that people watching Star Wars for decades would not at some point begin to notice that Star Wars works, not by just simply refraining and re-framing its own content, but also is fundamentally built on the very action of re-purposing prior cinematic materials in a sort of collage manner - that is, to assemble something new which communicates a new message out of already extant material which individually say something different than the collage.

    This concept is Lucas' favorite method of communication as a cinematic language, while his favorite method for speaking this language is visual. If he could have gotten away with it, Star Wars would have simply been a silent film. To him, he considers it a silent film anyway - the dialogue is a form of musical score in his head and way of thinking.

    And this loops back to the point of refraining and re-framing.

    Now, there are several disagreements that I have with the author of the following video regarding their opinions on film and audience reception. For example, I fully disagree with their pretentious attitude toward Star Wars fans, and audiences in general, and I absolutely don't think that it's required or helpful to talk down other works of the arts to make a case for Star Wars to be lifted up in some aesthetic manner of appreciation.

    Art appreciation does not require art criticism, nor does it require social judgement on its reception.

    Also, I am absolutely in full disagreement that no one who has issue with the prequels has valid reasons for not liking the prequels. That's just ridiculous.
    It's further ridiculous to claim that anyone who has a problem with the prequels is someone who is cinematically illiterate. That too is preposterous. I have issues with the prequels, and the issues that I have only come from my being cinematically literate to begin with. I appreciate them, but I don't think they are exactly great movies. They are great art, but not great movies.
    Some of my friends work in the Hollywood industry in scripts and VFX and they have issues with the films - it is a bit of a stretch to claim they are cinematically illiterate.

    In my opinion, you can just stop the video at 1hr 20min, in all honesty, because after that it devolves into slandering and down-talking by taking the simplest and worst examples of issues and then the author devolves himself into swearing, ridiculing, and name calling...none of which are enjoyable or admirable.

    That said, if you can put up with this elitist bit of pretentiousness of the author of this video (which I will be first to say takes some effort, especially at the beginning period), the payoff is that they did a decent job of collecting material together to discuss this attribute of Star Wars and Lucas' method of cinematic language.

    In this respect, I think the new films have done a remarkable job of walking a razor thin tight rope in keeping in this tradition which Lucas made the films, but deviating from an absolute adherence to the form so precisely.
    For example, in the newer films, Lucas' style of camera blocking and composition is replaced by more dynamic and story-driven styles as opposed to Lucas' Silver Screen/Documentarian style of blocking and composition, and further, the stories became more character-driven narratives with vested interest into really dialing into the psyche of the characters and evolving the story out of those psychological examinations - something that Lucas never had interest in doing with any of his films...not just Star Wars.

    This makes the films interesting because they become the most mainstream that Star Wars has ever been, in that they use standard storytelling conventions in conveyance of the story, but still follow the collage motif Lucas established.
    And yes, I realized the awkwardness of stating that the new films are the most mainstream that Star Wars has ever been...but it's true. As popular as Star Wars has been, it's never employed mainstream camera and scripting language until now.

    Anyway, here's the video. Do watch it. It's worth the time.



    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #1 Jayson, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  2. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    I'm making this follow up post because I really want to make sure to convey how much I fundamentally disagree with Rick Worley (the author of the video) on just about everything other than the factual pieces of information that he relays in this video about Lucas and his style of film making.

    I cannot agree in any regard to his opinions about Star Wars, Star Wars fans, art appreciation, reviews, nor his whole-fist rejection of Disney era Star Wars films - the latter of this list I take particular umbrage with his opinions because they are contradictory to his own opinions of the prequels; where on one hand, he ridicules people for poking at the plots of the prequels, yet on the other he pokes at the plots of the sequels - further, he gets upset about reviewers telling filmmakers how to make their films and claiming to know what Star Wars should be, and then turns around and does exactly this with the Disney films; making fun of the filmmakers and telling them what a Star Wars film should be. I have no tolerance for this type of behavior in art appreciation.

    I feel that I have to write this post because Worley is just such a negative voice on his channel in regards to Star Wars that I really feel bad pointing to his video in this thread.
    It is, however, a matter of pragmatism because in spite of all of his shortfalls, he did accurately document Lucas' cinematic methods.

    Again, I am very sorry to support this extremely negatively voiced individual in every other respect.

    I hope to one day compose a video which accomplishes this type of conversation without resorting to derogatory slander and pompous elitism.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  3. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    It does look like George was fond of those pop-culture references. I remember from my time in the JoJo fandom that I was able to discover many of the bands and songs that I listen to on a daily basis from their references (character names, stand names and how the themes of the songs were reflected in the personalities of the characters) as well the films and media that were referenced.

    Also, he is right about the whole confirmation bias thing.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2020 ---
    I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion on this one, particularly when it comes to his apparent hypocrisy regarding the sequels. As I have said in earlier criticisms, what a Star Wars film 'should be' is not something for us to decide nor is it something that is a universal standard as it means different things for different people.

    There is an ongoing debate regarding commercialism in cinema and other art forms and artistic integrity as well as how the role of the artist has shifted which I am sure a man of culture like yourself would be interested in exploring.

    Some links are below:
    I may have my own ideas regarding the creative direction and how it may be better to make changes or give characters (notably Zorii Bliss and Phasma) room to develop but I would never do anything consciously that would disrespect the creator.
     
  4. iosman

    iosman Clone

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    Here we have a movie where there are such intense feelings going on big time. Seeing Obi Wan have his heart broken as Anakin betrayed him was as powerful as watching Padme feel the same way after she saw Anakin's true face. Yoda feeling the death of the Jedi, Anakin getting ready to murder the younglings and even simple scenes like Ki Adi Mundi's sad expression as his Clone troops betrayed him were really hit home in my Amanin heart.
     
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  5. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    SW is always been a character driven movie, IMO. The backround (macro story) is somewhat the same in the 9 movies, but that’s just window dressing. The characters are their arc are what makes SW for me.

    So while man fans complained that TFA was a carbon copy of ANH from a macro perspective, Rey and Kylo’s story are what drew me in. Each Trilogy gives us a wide variety of characters to follow and you pick and choose who like.

    The beauty of SW is that some people watch it for the spaceships and special effects, some watch it for the Lightsabers and the Force as I watch as a character driven piece.
     
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  6. iosman

    iosman Clone

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    thanks my issue has been fixed.
     
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