1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

THREAD FOR THOSE WHO FEEL MIXED ABOUT THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Talon Karrde, Dec 16, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    Trophy Points:
    11,717
    Credits:
    3,916
    Ratings:
    +5,844 / 30 / -9
    The book was released after the movie, but it’s not like it was written after the movie. The contents of that manuscript would have been vetted and locked well before anyone’s reactions to TLJ.

    Still though, if you have to read it in a book to fully grasp what’s happening, then it probably wasn’t handled well enough in the movie.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Posts:
    1,098
    Likes Received:
    2,996
    Trophy Points:
    10,767
    Credits:
    4,120
    Ratings:
    +3,852 / 68 / -21
    Totally agree with you dude. However, wasn't the film finished in like September? The book published in March? I GUESS they could have done some last minute reworking of the book, but I do think you are right. The manuscript was probably locked in way back in November/early December.

    I feel in many ways the way I felt after watching and then reading AOTC. The novelization was better. I think the film versions did not do a good job with things while the novelizations were, in many respects, much more satisfying.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. Shadowblade

    Shadowblade Clone Commander

    Joined:
    May 27, 2018
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    297
    Credits:
    561
    Ratings:
    +245 / 24 / -4
    I guess this could sum up the "mixed" feelings;-)

     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Posts:
    277
    Likes Received:
    570
    Trophy Points:
    3,857
    Credits:
    1,065
    Ratings:
    +879 / 13 / -4
    When I walked out TLJ for the first time. My initial reaction was "I need to process." Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. But I eventually decided I liked it. Not
    loved. Liked. I guess that makes me in the mixed feelings camp.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Darth Mike

    Darth Mike Clone

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Posts:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Credits:
    85
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Hi everybody! I’m Mike and I’m new to the forum (obviously). I’m here because I’ve had a lot of time to let TLJ process, and I need an appropriate place to vent. Sorry I’m advance!
    My first reaction to TLJ was that I had a great time watching the flick, and generally speaking it’s a great movie. I’ve watched several times and was mostly stoked when I did, but as time goes on I am developing a sickness in my stomach for one simple reason: we the audience were CHEATED. It’s not just the fans who have watched all the trilogies, read the books/comics, and been hardcore for decades, but even the folks who started at Episode VII. TLJ had its fun moments, but we were robbed of nearly everything that VII built us up on. What about the Knights of Ren? What about Kylo and Rey’s respective training, and seeing them after learning how to MASTER the Force? After waiting almost 40 years to see how boss Luke Skywalker would be as a true Master, we don’t get to at least see him do one single F-ing lightsaber duel? What about Snoke? After all the mistique and build up with him, he is beaten by a little trick?! In that scene they could’ve had Snoke dodge the saber at the last second, and then have that same battle, but with Rey and Kylo battling him along with the Pretorian guards. That would’ve been insane!!!
    I absolutely LOVE Star Wars, and I even loved VII and Rogue 1, so I’ve been trying to stay positive about TLJ but I’ve come to the conclusion that Riar and Kathleen Kennedy created a self-indulgent movie. In my opinion, the right thing to do is to call TLJ Episode 7.5 and then give us a REAL Episode 8. I just hope to God that the next director actually gets it, and makes a movie that focuses on the stuff that has made the stories so great all these years: epic spaceship battles, laser-sword wielding wizard ninjas, fish monster people, gigantic explosions, and the magic of how a Force that binds all life in the galaxy has the power to achieve the overwhelmingly impossible.

    MOD EDITED
     
    #105 Darth Mike, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  6. TheDroidM6-B7

    TheDroidM6-B7 Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Credits:
    279
    Ratings:
    +114 / 0 / -0
    One thing I noticed on my last watching...

    Gravity.

    Now, I know the argument about dropping bombs in space and all that... and that's not what bugs me, I'm fine with that. The thing I picked up on, is that essentially, all the shots fired by the larger ships (like the Supremacy), follow an arcing trajectory - instead of simply travelling in a straight line. This is somewhat of an inconsistency with the other films.

    I'm still very much on the fence with TLJ, and I don't have a problem with the major points many people object to... but I'm picking up a few more little niggles now.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    Trophy Points:
    11,717
    Credits:
    3,916
    Ratings:
    +5,844 / 30 / -9
    Do you mean when the Resistance ships are out of range or just in general?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    198
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    3,597
    Credits:
    833
    Ratings:
    +577 / 1 / -1
    Yes, strange one. I recall the shots you mention, they seem to make an angle, like a cannon ball firing, where you need to compensate the angle to account for the gravity effect. That doesn't make sense in space though. Being them lasers or projectiles, I can't find an explanation for that one as the objects should just travel in a straight line. It's little things, as you say, but still. And, yes, there's no sound in space. Maybe this is in the same level as that? The difference being that it's a new thing perhaps.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    Trophy Points:
    11,667
    Credits:
    6,943
    Ratings:
    +5,080 / 25 / -7
    I'm curious about the ballistics of these weapons too.
    I've no doubt there's reasons for this but I haven't found anything definitive yet.

    It could be a particular feature of the projectiles they are using...
    And/or something to do with the distance of the targets...
    Some speculation as to why they may aim a little higher and curve downward...
    • some kind of spin drift from the projectile,
    • some kind of homing – shield, magnetic, heat,
    • specific targeting of the top of the ships – weaker top shields, bridge location, psychological warfare reasons.
    Does anyone know if someone involved in production has shared any info on this?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Posts:
    277
    Likes Received:
    570
    Trophy Points:
    3,857
    Credits:
    1,065
    Ratings:
    +879 / 13 / -4
    TFA was like like going to a restaurant and ordering a steak. And I enjoyed the steak ok but I am expecting a better steak next time. Now there is a new cook. I go back for another steak and I get spaghetti. I did not want spaghetti. I was not expecting spaghetti. But the spaghetti still tasted ok. That was TLJ. Next time the original cook is back and I am expecting a really good steak.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    Trophy Points:
    11,717
    Credits:
    3,916
    Ratings:
    +5,844 / 30 / -9
    Maybe next time, go in expecting a mediocre cheeseburger and be impressed by the OK steak?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Posts:
    3,384
    Likes Received:
    15,601
    Trophy Points:
    144,707
    Credits:
    13,982
    Ratings:
    +20,489 / 71 / -32
    Or, simply put, it looks cool. There doesn't have to be a different reason. Now, I know many of you consider continuity to be the most important thing for many of you, I guess we'll have to create an in-universe explanation for this. So, here we go.

    Lasers in Star Wars are not lasers, i. e. devices that emit electromagnetic radiation of a particular wavelength from somewhere in between UV and IR. They are, in fact, plasma emitters. Plasma is a state of matter that describes a gas which has electrons stripped away from its atoms/particles. Plasma, contrary to actual lasers, can be contained in form of discrete packages, like we see with lightsabres or turbolasers (the type of weapon found on the Supremacy that shoots over an angle.) Now, why would they shoot it over an angle if they didn't need to previously? The most likely explanation is that the ships these turbolasers are shooting are far away from them. Usually, when we see space combat in Star Wars, it happens between ships that are close to each other. In TLJ, the distance between the Supremacy and the Resistance ships is 100 kilometres (yes, this distance from some kind of reference book.) Apparently this distance necessitates a parabolic trajectory of the projectiles.

    I really dislike situations like these. Does it really matter that much? No, it doesn't. With changes in technology, directors, producers, actors, etc. each new installment of an ongoing film series will have some elements that differ from previous films. Like Thanos in MCU. Or Dumbledore in Harry Potter films. Or Gollum in LotR. Or lightsabres in Star Wars. Stuff simply changes and this doesn't imply some perceived lack of continuity.

    If you'd watched the film, you might have noticed that only the turbolasers on the Supremacy shoot parabolically. Their shots also move much more slowly than other projectiles in the film. These are the only guns that do so in the film. Does it mean that there is some apparent lack of continuity or does it suggest this was done intentionally? To show something, like how heavy and destructive these projectiles are? If it had happened only once, then yes, I would have agreed with you that it is some sort of error, like the disappearing blade from the Throne Room fight. But, more often than not, things like these are done to convey something visually. In this case, what the arching shot says to us, the viewers, is "I am different. I am bigger, meaner, more destructive." That's it.
     
  13. TheDroidM6-B7

    TheDroidM6-B7 Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Credits:
    279
    Ratings:
    +114 / 0 / -0
    This is what it comes down to for me... I'm totally fine with it if it was evident that there was a reason... a physicality to the projectiles that gave them a spin or a bias, that was beneficial for shooting 'over' shields would be fine...

    ... but, honestly, to me it stands out as part of a bigger decision to mimic the look or feel of more conventional wars (or war films), that I don't feel is in keeping with the look of SW in general. Slow moving heavy bombers with bomb bays full of racks and racks of bombs is very WW2. The use of "Periscopes" onboard the Fulminatrix is again a strong visual throwback to WW2 films... arcing projectiles during a bombardment is too... infact as I think about it, the whole idea of a fixed pace chase between ships is a very WW2 naval style concept, and we even get some trench warfare on Crait.

    Not that I have a problem with any of that in isolation, but like I say, to me it's conspicuous enough to stick out as an artistic choice that is contrary to the feel of the other films. It's only a small thing, and I'm sure there are other parallels and precedents in SW but this one bugs me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    198
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    3,597
    Credits:
    833
    Ratings:
    +577 / 1 / -1
    Good points. I feel the same way and couldn't say it better than you. Some aspects feel a bit forced or out of place, or shall I say, feel different in style. They are nice touches in isolation, as you say, but when all are combined the difference in style becomes apparent, which creates continuity problems for some, or simply moments that feel a bit at odds with the franchise's style and scope (example: where are all the Y-Wings? Why the need for these type of bombers, etc).

    This all comes from the creators personal sense of style, of course. And I'll not dare to say that you or I are more knowledgeable or more in tune with what the Star Wars universe is or should be.

    In a way, TLJ is refreshing, and we needed that after TFA, in my opinion. The problem is if the changes and novelties were for the best. Personaly, I don't think Star Wars needs a new style, a new vision or a different look on things, I think it should only have different stories happening in the same well known universe we all love so much.

    So, in essence, I enjoyed my time in theaters with TLJ but ended up feeling mixed about it on the long run after watching it a few more times. I do like some aspects a lot, but others not so much. I feel TFA is a more true Star Wars movie but was unoriginal, TLJ was a bit of a departure from the franchise in terms of style, and because of it was more original than TFA in that sense. However, personaly I'd like to have TFA's truer sense of what Star Wars is mixed with a more original story, like TLJ presented. Hopefuly that's what we'll get in Episode IX.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Posts:
    343
    Likes Received:
    6,179
    Trophy Points:
    14,567
    Credits:
    1,602
    Ratings:
    +6,690 / 6 / -0
    Better still, go in expecting to be served a meal, and enjoy whatever the chef has made for you today.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Posts:
    277
    Likes Received:
    570
    Trophy Points:
    3,857
    Credits:
    1,065
    Ratings:
    +879 / 13 / -4
    That's a good way to approach any movie. The filmmaker's job is to tell a story. I usually just go in expecting to be told a good story. And I thought TLJ had decent story even though it didn't give the fans everything they wanted.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Posts:
    244
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    1,597
    Credits:
    585
    Ratings:
    +437 / 22 / -4
    When I first saw the film, I thought it was a lot to take in. I saw it at midnight in Imax. I was trying to process the film and there were some individual thrilling moments. It is also a well shot film and is well made in terms of production design, cinematography, the look of the film is gorgeous.

    I think a lot of my impression was the fact that I was convinced that Rian Johnson wasn’t going to fail.I went in wanting to like the film.

    With that being said, i still had reservations about its placement in the overall mythology. Who is Snoke? What is the story about? Even after the first viewing, I was sort of dreading episode IX.

    I think the overall positive impression was mostly seeing Luke finally in action, at least for a few moments. I was initially positive on Luke’s portrayal but something happened along the way.

    I was shocked by how much backlash it received on the media. I thought it was silly and believed that people were dumb. I saw it a second time, and it was still positive but diminished a bit.

    I saw it third time and I was convinced that it was simply a good, not great film. But over time, with distance the film has gotten worse. I see a lot of the cracks and problems people have with the movie.

    There were some interesting ideas in theory(Rey being not related, the idea of Luke rejecting the Jedi, etc) but the execution of some of it was messy and then sometimes the film undoes a good scene thirty seconds later.

    By the end of the film, I had no idea what the dynamics of the characters were. Whereas at the end of Empire, I wanted to know what happens to Han, Luke, Leia, at the end of this? Nothing Poe, Finn, Rey, and Rose did kept me excited or intrigued for the next chapter.



    The movie hints at something cool like Kylo and Rey teaming up but then instead, we go back to being empire vs rebels again.

    The idea of deconstructing Luke is not a bad idea. But the gap between ROTJ and TLJ is vague. The transition from being the man who saw good in his child murdering father to thinking of murdering his nephew in his sleep was so off putting. Beyond those vague Kurosowa flashbacks, what else lead Luke to this?

    Luke spends the entire film saying the Jedi are bad but then at the end its, “oh nvm! we learn from failure!” But we don’t see why the Jedi have to brought back or why they are needed. Part of that is that Rey and Luke don’t actually bond or develop a real relationship.

    If Rey is not related to Luke but she STILL senses his death, then it can only be earned if they developed a master student relationship, which was not the case.

    He spends the entire time trying to get her off the island so she does. Then he comes out at the end and then says basically “oh ok you are the next Jedi.” What did she do to earn that? Because she stole the books? Because he is just awesome at a lightsaber?

    I love the idea of Rey. I am more puzzled by how she is able to wield that lightsaber so well and quickly. Then in the novelization, it says she downloaded it? That just reeks laziness.

    Overall, I don’t think it’s an “objectively bad” film but I think it’s a hallow film with cool visuals and individual cool moments.

    But in terms of story? It just fell flat and kinda boring.

    If the legacy of Han, Luke, and Leia after the OT was one spoiled whiny emo dark side user then why should I care? It’s just depressing and cold. The execution is weak and it just seems like their actions in the OT ultimately meant nothing.

    Just my opinion though. Everyone has their own take.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  18. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    198
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    3,597
    Credits:
    833
    Ratings:
    +577 / 1 / -1
    I feel the same. The way Luke was handled bothered me in particular. I will add that I think TLJ has some really great and cool moments (e.g. throne room battle, Holdo moment, a few moments between Luke and Rey, Luke's final showdown). All that is great, but...

    An this leads to:
    I feel exactly the same as you. I don't think it's a bad film. It has some wonderful, exhilarating and cool moments, but between there's some pretty boring stuff happening, and everytime I re-watch the movie I can't wait for the more boring parts to end so that I can have fun with the good parts. In this sense I think it's quite a disjointed and unbalanced movie.

    Compare this to Solo. Very different movie. But in Solo I'm never bored or waiting for something to happen. I just hook up and enjoy the ride. TLJ is a weird movie. Again, I don't think it's bad, it has great moments but it's not that good of a movie either, I feel.

    I'm hopeful that I'll enjoy IX better, at least in a global sense. I enjoyed TFA a bit more than TLJ by the way, but I was let down by the soft-reboot path they chose to go with.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,207
    Ratings:
    +6,088 / 170 / -36
    This is really my whole beef with the Trilogy. This is another reason I truly feel mixed about TLJ (and the ST) because I actually enjoy the movie(s), but just don't enjoy the big picture story it's telling because it's part of a larger 9 part story. If that doesn't make sense, then I'll try to explain further.

    I love the PT story as it ties well with the OT and has a consistent narrative regarding Anakin's Arc and the rise of the Empire. I just don't like the movies on an individual basis, as I think they are poorly executed, shoddy acting, and too much CGI.

    The ST is very well executed, has great acting, and less CGI, so I really enjoy the movies, but I'm just not interested in the story it is telling because it feels so much like we've been there done that. The OT had b

    That is why I can truly say I'm mixed on TLJ and the Trilogy, because I am not really that hyped for Episode 9, because I just don't think the story is going anywhere new, but I still think I will enjoy it because I care about the characters. ROTS was the opposite where I couldn't wait for the movie cause I wanted to see where the story was going, but figured I wouldn't love the movie because I hadn't cared about the characters from Episode 1 and 2.

    The PT and ST has truly put me into therapy! lol! :p
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Posts:
    244
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    1,597
    Credits:
    585
    Ratings:
    +437 / 22 / -4



    To be honest, I have more respect for the PT in a weird way. The prequels have sterile directing and acting. But the story is clear and the imagination is amazing. Now the ST has solid directing and acting and the story is just muddled.

    I honestly respect Revenge of the Sith more than the Last Jedi and TFA. And I’ve learn to respect TFA a little more.

    TFA was a remake obviously. I loved the first 45 min before we REALLY got the remake and then it kinda went downhill a bit. But it was a solid start. You could easily make an amazing sequel where you explain the context and world building a lot more clearly while pushing the franchise in a direction that is satisfying and unexpected.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page