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THREAD FOR THOSE WHO FEEL MIXED ABOUT THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Talon Karrde, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    It would represent a logic problem for me, because I thought what TLJ was communicating was that he found his purpose and therefore joined the Resistance. He found something he was willing to give his life for (far fetched albeit) coming out of his coma. That doesn't register to you as purpose?
     
  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi Commander

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    He found vague purpose, in the idea of the Resistance itself, sure.

    But what will his purpose be? I think that's for IX.

    Perhaps you'd agree with this?: the extended Phasma scene, if it'd been left in the film, would've done wonders to make Finn's path more clear.

    Personally, I could see that being the case.
     
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  3. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    The extended Phasma scene would have been useful in arguing that a Storm Trooper rebellion could be on the horizon (there were other impediments to this plot line from TFA and TLJ but at least this would be some indicator). But whether or not I agree with it, I thought Rian's communication on this was that Finn found purpose in fighting for the Resistance, in what capacity he did that was secondary or even irrelevant.
     
  4. starfish

    starfish Rebelscum

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    This is where I am with this film. For the most part I have enjoyed the ST, but the trilogy so far has its issues. First and for most for me is the lack of world building, and generally speaking just sort of boring set up between the first order and the resistance. I mean I read the books and comics and stuff so I’m fine with getting a lot of that from them, but still I wish we would’ve gotten more of this on screen.

    And with only one film left, certainly a lot of questions remain to be covered.
     
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  5. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I recently watched TFA and TLJ back to back, after taking a few months off (to give some perspective) and I realized I will always be mixed on the Trilogy. I think the films are well executed and I do enjoy them in that respect, but the story is so unoriginal (and borrows TOO many themes from the OT) that it's really not that interesting after multiple viewings.

    I sort of rolled my eyes twice, when Kylo Ren tells Rey she needs a teacher in TFA, and when Rey tries to redeem Kylo Ren in TLJ. I just feel it's 'been there done that' after 8 movies, and SW seriously needs to find another story. It's ironic because I feel the exact opposite towards the PT in that the story is very interesting (the world building, the plotting by Palpatine, the tragic fall of the Jedi), but the movies are so badly executed that they don't hold up well in that respect 15-20 years later.

    I really don't care about Episode 9 at this point even though I do think it will be an entertaining movie, as JJ will push all of the right buttons. I just don't believe there is anything new in the story that they can do at this point to make it interesting other then retreading more plot points/themes from the OT. They will twist some of those plot points around like they did in TLJ to make it seem original, but if you take a step back, there really will be nothing new.
     
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  6. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    So unlike some, I really like grumpy old Luke. Everything from Luke on Ach-To rings true to me.

    My problem comes with Luke on Crait. To me, that's when he starts to feel unlike Luke. Brushing his shoulder, "see you around kid"--these just don't strike me as Luke things.

    And this next bit is pure speculation, unbacked by any actual knowledge:

    The "grumpy Luke" bits feel like Rian Johnson's work, and those are the things Hamill hates.

    My theory is that the "Luke on Crait" bits are a lot more Hamill than Johnson. They remind me of the grizzled warrior Luke that Hamill wanted to see in RotJ. The whole thing in general feels more like Mark Hamill than Luke, to me.

    So I wonder: maybe my problems with Luke have nothing to do with Johnson. Maybe those are the parts where Johnson have Hamill a bit more leash.
     
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  7. atreides602

    atreides602 Rebelscum

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    It's been more than a year since i've seen tlj first time, and i only rewatched it for like 4 or 5 times ... for a star wars movie that is UNACCTEPTABLE , i watched tfa for 30 times or so , hell, i watched the Independence Day 2 for 3 times and i despise that movie... funny thing is that i can't quite put my finger on exactly what's bothering me ; i enjoy it first time i've seen it in cinema, and the action starting from Yoda's appearance till the end of the movie is pretty impresive, but:
    For me star wars is about the force, force users, light or dark, duel of faiths, duel of destinys, that kind of things , i don't care about starships ( in any other sci-fi thats my main priority, to see new races, civilisations, technology, but not star wars) i don't care about romance , i don't care if the comic reliefe is well done or bad ( jar jar ), i don't even mind that those mistery boxes jj put in tfa were left unansered ( well, i was curious about snoke tough, but ... ) or how they handled Luke .
    In the end , it all comes down to this : i reallllllyyyyy wanted and expected a confruntation between Luke and Snoke , at least a verbal one , if not a duel, the posibilities were huge; also , i would've love to see Kylo Ren going on Anch'to to face Luke , miroring the ot , when an untrained young jedi is going to face the all powerfull sith , they did that with Ray but i think it should be the other way arround.
    One more " critic " that i have to make to both tfa and tlj is the total lack of pt references , they are part of the universe, why ignore it? they really believe people will throw their popcorn and soda and run out in screams if they see a gungan or a dug on screen??? oh well...
     
  8. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think the biggest problem with TLJ is exactly what you're stating, it really doesn't have a main story. It's really a movie with several 'B' stories that are going on simulatenously. I actually think that is what Rian Johnson was going for in that his theme of 'failure' fits every story, and in one way I admire that because it goes deeper than your average blockbuster. But as I will keep saying and saying and saying, this is Part 8 of a 9 Part Saga and now wasn't the time to make a hard right turn with the franchise and kind of do something that doesn't jive with the previous 7 movies.

    Rian Johnson was probably the perfect guy for a Standalone movie or a new Trilogy cause he does think outside the box, where JJ is someone who plays it much more safer. What a lot of Pro-TLJ fans don't get is that playing safe doesn't necessarily means it's boring and the same old same old, and that is where TLJ went wrong in that respect. No doubt TFA models itself off of ANH, but where it differed was the character arcs and that is where the ST could have separated itself. TLJ is a like a big puzzle that the pieces are everywhere and you are taking a lot of time trying to fit all of them together. But in the end, that puzzle essentially ends up at square one with Rey as the New Hope and the Resistance vs First Order, so it wasn't THAT much different of a puzzle when you really think of it.
     
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  9. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel Commander

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    I really wish I could say I loved TLJ but I have admit that I fall into the “mixed” camp. But that is how I feel about most movies in general. There are very few movies that I hate and only a handful of movies I consider to be great. The frustrating thing about TLJ was that it had so much potential to be great. I loved most everything involving the Force using characters. But I feel the film is bogged down by the Poe/Holdo melodrama and most of the Canto Bight nonsense. But I try to focus on the good.
     
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  10. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish Rebel General

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    I feel kind of on my own with my complaints about the film. Everyone on here I see talking about character motivations or how they think a character should act or how powerful someone should be etc.

    Does anyone else just find the film a little bit boring? That for me is the cardinal sin for a Star wars film. Even the messy prequels were never dull. And every time something cool threatens to happen or a character is about to explain something it either cuts away or rams a large spoonful of bathos down our throats.

    I honestly couldn't care less who Rey's parents are, what Luke's mindset is or his reasons for acting how he does, Snokes death etc I just want to see an interesting, exciting story involving these characters. I just find sitting down and watching the film so underwhelming, it's the only Star wars film that rarely ever thrills me After TFA I was expecting a bombastic, captivating rollercoaster of a film and what we got was more of a belated sigh.

    I like some things, so 'mixed' is definitely how I feel. But does anyone else on here fall into the same camp as me? That the most offensive thing about this mainline Star Wars story is that the film is just okay-ish, never gets out of second gear and is on roughly the same level as a second tier rate Marvel film
     
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  11. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel General

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    pablo-hidalgo-sequel-trilogy-star-wars-1071940.jpeg pablo-hidalgo-sequel-trilogy-star-wars-1071940.jpeg
    Thinking of killing his nephew is argued that it is wildly out of character for Luke. I disagree completely, and Luke's decisions from the OT make my case. Initially he's all for killing Vader to avenge his aunt and uncle, Obi-Wan, and his father. When Vader reveals he's Luke's father, it allows him to look beyond the "monster in a mask" and see the human underneath. Even Obi-Wan and Yoda urged him to face and strike Vader down in order to become a Jedi Knight, but Luke's instincts told him different.

    Luke's ability to trust his instincts still carries over into that The Last Jedi scene, as he realizes that Ben has been corrupted by the darkness. Even with the ramifications of killing his nephew, Luke's instincts tell him that it would ultimately help the galaxy. Luke's trusted instincts are telling him to strike Ben down for the good of the future, in the same way his damaging trip to Bespin was ultimately a good thing, and to ignore the advice of his Jedi Masters and reach out to Vader was a good thing. Luke, of course, realizes his mistake; that his instincts have been clouded, but by then it's too late.

    Even Mark Hamill agrees... "I've had trouble accepting what [Rian Johnson] saw for Luke." Hamill said. "But again, I have to say, having seen the movie, I was wrong."

    Even Hildago confirmed that most of TLJ was Lucas's original concept for the PT.
     
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  12. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel General

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    I left the TLJ with the same feeling I had when I first watched TESB as a kid; I was a bit jarred. It was so vastly different from it's predecessor in tone, style and story. But that's not a bad thing. Rian gave us the unexpected, but the attacks on him that he characterized Luke, Hux and others incorrectly was unjustified in my opinion. See my previous comment on Luke for more details on that point.

    Things I am glad Rian didn't do;
    *Make Rey a someone.
    *Make Luke a super Jedi which would have lessened our villians Snoke and Kylo, and would of just been silly fan service.
    *Time jump. It was important to see Luke's initial reaction to Rey's arrival.

    Things I may have changed;
    *While I think Rian understands Hux's character very well, I would have toned down his 'getting pushed around' just a bit.
    *I would of had Luke throw the Lightsaber to the side, exactly like he did when he proclaimed to Palpatine "I am a Jedi, like my father before me". Would have been neat parallel.
    *I would have used Maz better or not at all. Or at least when Poe goes to message her about a code breaker, have her in a setting other then a fire fight. Why would you even answer a call in the middle of that? Lol
    *While I understand Rian using a younger Luke in his confrontation with Kylo, I knew immediately something wasn't right. I would have made Luke look exactly like he did on Ahch-to, as that would have made the reveal of his Force Projection even more surprising.
    *Holdo's intro as being all calm, soft, and emotional, then being a complete dick to Poe bothered me. Rian obviously wanted to show Holdo was suspicious of Poe and the rest of the crew, that's why she kept her plan close to her chest, but then after all her and Poe go through, she proclaims, "I like this one" to Leia. I would have made her more stern and to the point from her intro, to help raise the tension and perhaps validate Poe's concerns.

    Things I loved that Rian did;
    *Rey is no one. Brilliant. The force calling to a no-one is way more intriguing then if she were a Skywalker or Kenobi.
    *Canto Bight. Sorry I really like this sequence. This is were Finn finally begins to understand the universe and picks a side. Plus it was new, refreshing, and fun. Our intro to DJ here was great.
    *Leia uses the force. It may have been somewhat silly looking, but the fact she used the force was very cool and satisfying. Oh, that powerful Skywalker Blood indeed. :)
    *Thank you Rian for asking JJ to have R2 accompany Rey and Chewy to Ahch-to. It resulted in Luke and R2's reunion, which was perfectly done. For a split second we saw the old happy Luke. It was heartwarming and sad at the same time.
    *The Slow Space Chase. Sure it may have had some explanation issues, but what in Star Wars doesn't? --- Rebels fleeing Hoth right into the blockade, when they literally had infinite direction from the planet they could have went. --- The chase gave us tension and suspense, while building Poe's character. And Hux, was so arrogant and inexperienced, that following and watching them slowing get decimated, perfectly fit his character.
    *Kyo's turn/non-turn, and murder of Snoke. The entire Throne room scene was just amazing in every way.
    *Kyo's interactions with Rey through the force were great. It humanized him, opened up the door for possible redemption, should JJ go that route.
    *Luke's Force Projection. Kylo setting up how strong one has to be just to bridge to peoples minds, and then Luke pulling off the greatest power we have seen a force user use to date. Amazing.
    *And last.... the surprises and twist, and the Creation of a Legend. Never knowing what to expect, and believing our hero's were in genuine danger almost all the time, made it an 'edge of your seat' movie. While TESB was amazing and still my favorite, all our Hero's never seem to be in any real danger. By the end, the Rebellion is still completely intact, save for a frozen Han Solo, and an emotionally broken Luke. By the end of TLJ, we lose Luke Skywalker, and the Rebellion is down to a single ship and a handful of people. Now that makes for a potentially great finale to see how our Hero's can pull off defeating the First Order with next to no resources. All they have is at this point is Hope thanks to the Legend of Luke Skywalker.

    Cheers!
     
    #152 Darth Chewie, Apr 21, 2019 at 1:26 PM
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019 at 2:01 PM
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  13. Ebon Hawk

    Ebon Hawk Clone

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    This thread is a great idea. I recently watched the trailer for Episode 9 and found myself feeling very indifferent towards it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019 at 1:38 AM, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 at 1:36 AM ---
    Very well said
     
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