THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

You are so reasonably well reasoned with your reasoning.

 

Also...... I love how Yoda just decided to show up when he did.... How long was Luke on this island? Where was our boy obiwan? He didn't feel like dropping in on our pal Luke over the years? What about Qui Gon and the rest of the homies? Everyone just gave up and decided they shouldnt drop in and try and convince him to get his head in the game? And I don't want to hear the whole "he cut himself off from the force". They could have came before he did or right there when Yoda did or shown themselves to REY at any point on the island...

If this truly was the first jedi temple... and force ghosts could appear.... why wouldn't yoda or obi or anyone show themselves to REY and tell her not to listen to Luke he's trippin right now. When Rian Johnson continued to say during the press build ups how Luke trained Rey in a different way..... I thought he meant he'd give her permission to stay on the island and as she explored past force ghosts would show and teach her new lessons and pieces of the past. Luke would watch see her being a G and decide theyre right we need to go change the jedi.

Even if you don't agree with my version of how I would have liked it to go down... you can't argue with the logic that any force ghost should have shown themselves to Rey and given her some guidance. Because Rian's version of Luke training Rey was literally Luke not training Rey.

 

Well as much as it sucks that two of the main three heroes of the OT quit the fight. One is fine but both really? Would have loved a master samurai Luke protecting the small folk from the First Order. That is not at all Rian's fault he was definitely tied down due to what JJ did but he could have definitely come up with something better. Also for those saying Luke was to damn old to go out and fight the First Order seemed to have forgotten about this wrinkly badass.

 

It was an average film.

 

On the one hand, those who love this movie are right, there is no metric that really works to show there's any substantial backlash against the ST and TLJ. I despise TLJ, it won't get any more of my money and like you I think there is a silent majority, but there's no proof of that. I don't need these movies to fail to the tune of hundreds of millions to feel justified in my opinion. I'll just sit back and watch how Solo and EPIX does. I don't know anyone personally who likes TLJ, but that doesn't mean the backlash is overwhelming, it just means the people I hang out with have similar taste and expectations as me.

There's no information that proves one way or another, so the debate is based off of perception (mostly). We'll only start to get bits and pieces of facts after EPIX.

 

I agree we may learn a bit more how the reception is after Solo and especially after IX. Maybe there are new fans who fill the slot, no idea. I don't invest anymore, but sit back and watch what happens.

 

You make an excellent point. I will say that I don't expect the Solo stand alone movie to be negatively impacted by TLJ dislike, but EPIX? EPIX I would expect to experience a fairly strong head wind at first (but not an insurmountable one). I think people are going to be far less reflexive in supporting that movie and wait until they hear someone report back that it is a good movie and/or that it is not a Rian Johnson type of movie, and then go and see for themselves. There is also the chance that they just produce a once-in-a-lifetime trailer that generates so much interest by what it teases/promises that the the TLJ sin will be overlooked.

 

The word going around is that most of those fans who despise "The Last Jedi" are basically white male fanboys. This article I found on the Mary Sue blog seemed to indicate otherwise:

The Inclusive Illusion of Star Wars: The Last Jedi - https://www.themarysue.com/the-inclusive-illusion-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi/.

 

I don't think a demographic can be identified or applied when it comes to a mediocre movie

 

I think Solo will do reasonably well. It is still a well-known, much-beloved character that audiences are already familiar with. Not as well as the main episodes, and it may suffer a bit from Star Wars fatigue, but Rogue One numbers are not out of the question. (Maybe not quite that high, but still in the neighborhood)

My fear - or perhaps I should say what anyone invested financially in this franchise should be afraid of - is E9. Fact is Rey, Finn and Poe just don't even remotely have the cache of Luke, Han and Leia. Bringing Luke back into a major role would not only be a good from a narrative standpoint to undue the disaster of E8, but also from a financial standpoint to give casuals more incentive to see the darn thing.

 

This. I couldn't believe the initial rumors I read coming out about TLJ, I thought "this cannot be true." I feel like some will be less inclined to blindly show up as they did before, which is weird for this franchise.

The really interesting thing will be how things look at Celebration, and especially after 2019 (during lulls) regarding the fans, response to the ST and direction(s) of other SW media/EU. I feel like LFL are just going to have to keep churning things out, and watering SW down, which looks to be their plan so people don't get too attached, and things are disposable somewhat like culture now. Maybe the SW franchise will be okay, I don't know, but I do know that (anecdotally speaking) my children and children nowadays don't care about SW like I did as a kid. Toys have been replaced with electronics, and they have so much more media to choose from at their fingertips, that SW is like white noise. The world is about instant gratification, and moving on to the next thing. Although it pains me either way, it will be fascinating to watch SW for the next decade+.

Can SW and the ST be salvaged for myself? Yes, but it will require specific bullet points, none of which seem to be the trajectory. I will have to reassess my devotion and personal canon after IX. The real question is, can I mentally partition out my version of SW going forward if need be.....

 

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This isn't a fact. This is your extremely negative opinion about the most financially successful film from 2017

 

Finances do not equate to creative or artistic success. And, his opinion is on the money. Luke, Han and Leia were, frankly, lightning in a bottle and the new characters come nowhere near to the charisma of those three. And that is a fact.

 

Well duh, there's 40+ years of nostalgia with Han, Leia and Luke. Same goes for the PT's three. However, I don't know how you able to even claim that's a "fact". When film is all opinion based anyway.

 

They didn't have, nor need, 40+ years of nostalgia when they were launched unto the public consciousness in the 1970s. They were simply great characters, magnetic onscreen stars with incredble chemistry and, sadly, have not been matched by the new cast. With the exception of Adam Driver and, perhaps, Oscar Isaac.

Oh, and it's a fact because I said so.

 

Right...

 

yes, this remembers me a change of our society into a throw-away society. Nothing means anything anymore and can be replaced by something else. Somehow I don't belive this is a good way to go.

 

You mean the film that got beaten by another film in 2 months after release, and will get beaten again 4 months after release? Regardless....

Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia and Han Solo are household names and among the most well known, beloved characters in cinematic history. They transcended their medium and became a part of our very culture. Even people who don't care about Star Wars in the slightest still know who Luke Skywalker is.

It is an undeniable fact that Rey, Finn and Poe are not even remotely comparable in terms of popularity, influence or cache.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2018 ---

Ah, but it didn't take 40 years for Han, Luke and Leia to be household names. They were a cultural phenomenon the very same summer Star Wars first hit the theaters. Finn, Poe and Rey are not even in the same ballpark.

 

Ugh, again with so-called facts instead of calling them opinions. That's not what I said, I said there is 40+ years of nostalgia with those three characters from the beginning. Hence using 40+ years of nostalgia. Even George couldn't strike lightning in a bottle twice with the Prequels three.