THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

I don't remember that one. I did watch Twelve O'Clock High and Three Outlaw Samurai. I highly recommend those films for movie lovers. RJ is a USC film guy like Lucas so I'm not surprised he used some elements of other classic films.

I can't speak (again) for your anecdotal experiences, but as someone with a background in statistics IMDb isn't 100% reliable. No online poll is reliable because it's not a controlled sample of people who saw the film. It a sample of people who decided to vote. The key difference between RT audience score and IMDb is it's more difficult to vote more than once. All you need to vote on RT is a fake email. RT doesn't do anything to weed out fake accounts. Which is why the scores are different between IMDb and RT. I don't think the RT score was rigged by bots. It just takes a few thousand people to vote multiple times.

The article isn't about that at all. Clearly you didn't read it. The article is about why people other than the toxic bunch didn't like. Why comment on something you didn't even read.
From the 3rd paragraph:

 

He actually says as much: "To also be clear, I unabashedly loved The Last Jedi. And I have admitted time and time again that [my] opinion is probably worthless because I have now come to know a lot of members of the Johnson family."

Like I said, his introduction is not helping him out. But I think as he goes on, he makes a lot of interesting points and I just want to see what you all think.

 

This lost you?

I'm curious... if this offends you, why? How would you describe the toxic people that exist? Again, the article describes these losers and then moves on to reasonable people who have problems with the film.

 

Hi, friend. Could I ask you to tone it down a little? Just tryin' to have a conversation with these kind folks. I don't want it to seem like we're ganging up on them in their own thread, that's all.

 

Dont really think you read the article, maybe started, maybe skimmed. It is a 16000 word article I is a long read and you replied 15 minutes after the link was posted. Really read it. It is simply the most detailed discussion on TLJ or any Star Wars movie I have read. It should be read slowly and not go into it looking to disagree with it.


Also want to ask a question? Someone please answer civilly and with real content. People seem to want KK or RJ to issue some sort of public statement. What exactly do you want to have them say? I cant think of anything for them to say that would be at all constructive. Simply because nothing they would possibly say would make the vocal toxic fandom do anything but attack.

 

I enjoyed your earlier post @Darth_Nobunaga.
I feel differently about a lot of things but it's interesting and informative to read your thoughts and reasoning.

I felt the same about Obiwan's death in ANH.

Your points below stand of course, but it's kinda funny how with all this talk of the need for consistency...

...that when there is consistency e.g. Luke's greatest weakness coming back to haunt him, it's labelled “creative bankruptcy”.

Well some obviously don't...

It's common during pre-production for cast and crew to watch films that illustrate certain techniques the director or DOP want to emulate.

Sometimes it's only one particular aspect they're trying to highlight: composition, tone, lighting, certain shots, or character dynamic etc.

Even if TLJ is crap I'm not sure how the genre or excitement level of these films inform anything without taking into consideration why they were watching them!

 

Well, I can certainly see his point of view. If he liked it due to those interpretations, that's good for him. It is truth to be told just not what I was looking for, expected, or made me care about SW in the first place. I'm also put off by the hyperbole, and bias....which he at least is honest about. I also find it ridicilous that he states that he is not writing it to discuss whether the movie is good or bad...but to make people understand and communicate better. In reality he writes an essay about we he finds it good and spends most of his time arguing why it was really good and underappreciated.

I'd like to comment on two of his views, much too long and similar to other reviews to spend time on:

1. His take on logic, in regards to fans being angry about the whole "don't tell them the plan" storyline with admiral Holdo.

Quote: "The truth is, this is not an uncommon attitude to see from some fans. They approach stories in terms of what would be most “logical” for one character to do in a story, and sometimes it isn’t even about what that character would do. They’ll approach it as “what would I, as an individual in that specific situation, do differently?” Which not only misunderstands the whole need for characters with different points of view within storytelling, but that getting into these nonsense-logic debates belies the deeper intent and functionality of storytelling itself."

I my view, the best written movies show characters that does believable things due to their traits and motivations. They connect with the fans emotionally, their choices plot wise resonates because the viewer feels they could have done the same put in the same circumstances or carrying the same emotional baggage. It seems believable. To me the Hold thing will always seem as putting plot device first in order to create tension, set up Canto Bight and Poe's arc....while not making sense any other way. I admire the skill of say the writers of Westworld in regards to world building and explaining character choices. They write really well, filling in the pieces, making it believaable, while still keeping the audience guessing, engaged and excited. I don't get the feeling that the dots don't connect or ultimately do not make sense watching something like that.

One thing that irritates me most about movies are illogical plot lines. So...why in the world have I been watching a movie about space wizards where fantastical beasts live in asteroids? Well...to me, I can buy a story, however illogical from the beginning, if it stays true to it's internal logic and rules throughout. Ok, so hyperspace, lightsabers, deaths stars and the force etc are in and explained in regards to the way it works...as well as aliens in any shape or form. Not to mention the characters and their core motivations/beliefs. I can accept the premises/ground rules, and then follow the story.

Problems arise when you later change that. Suddenly the events of OT bareley seemed to have occured, it's the rebels vs the Empire again. The Republic apparently had all 7 planets... Hyperspace weaponized. Slow WW2 bombers with gravity bombs... surviving cold vacuum through the force.The force no longer requiring training to use efficiently. Force ghosts interacting with the real world. Parking ticket jail... jailed hacker breaking out whenever he felt like it...Characters acting in my view out character, making their previous arcs matter little. "A legend" used to raise new hope, even though the only witnesses were a few crystal foxes and whatever could fit in the milennium falcon. Sacrifice for naught unless an escape was located and a ship came in. Etc. etc. After a while, it just becomes too much. It does not make sense.

2. Expectations

It is probably a lot more easy to like if you did not really care about setups from TFA, which the author admits he cared little for. No further development of the Knights of Ren, Snoke, Rey's parents, Maz lightsaber/backstory, the state of the new Republic/galactic players, Rey's supremacy with the force etc etc. We got none of that, and you can't blame the fans for expecting it. The planning of the storyline for the trilogy is just unbelievable idiotic and makes it disjointed.

I also had to admit; I did not go to watch SW to challenge my world views or interpret philosophical questions. There are far, far better movies to see if that is what you want to spend the afternoon with. TLJ is mediocre in that regard...no, actually, the attempts are just garbage and does not fit. I simply wanted escapism, to watch and ongoing fairy tale, to explore a great universe from long time ago, see some heroic actions and cool force abilities and finally see Luke at his full potential. To be entertained. To leave with expectations for IX and actually care where the story was headed. Unfortunately, that is not what I or others got. No wonder that created anger and people turning away from the franchise.

Lastly I think perhaps this is a more balanced summary of why we must agree to disagree, and why this really did not turn out well for a huge number of fans. It has less hyperbole, self-righteousness and bias than the article, even though it comes from a TLJ fan.

 

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2018...delicious-fanboy-tears-new-star-wars-trilogy/

It is hard to keep coming back from things like the statement above, but people wanting an actual apology are not the majority of dissenters IMO. People like myself actually want these people to just stop talking - stop engaging on Twitter, and kind of disappear for a large amount of unspecified time. It's like little children bickering, RJ included. Pablo Hidalgo is still going on in his underhanded ways, which I am a little surprised about, but perhaps there are other reasons to that. You could ask your employees, content creators and groups you relay information to, that they find other articles to write instead of pieces about "why you can't like this movie because your neckbeard needs to be shaved.' Twitter, social media, YT and the internet are a whole lot of poison and things get lost in translation, which then gets spun in various ways to click bait articles and YT channels. Clearly there are a lot of bad people on the internet, but you cannot police them all, and you're better off directing the narrative forward in a more deflective, positive manner.

The Last Jedi Remake is kind of a ridiculous joke in itself which of course I would never expect to be made, but those same individuals retweeting that poster is just another example of stoking the fires indirectly. Somehow if you disliked Rey's actions or the movie, you wanted her to be a subservient wife. Even though she *cough*....boxed herself up and delivered herself to Kylo...*cough*. Or Luke to be so powerful he destroys everything in sight. No, but I could have stood to see him actually have a worthwhile mentor relationship with Rey.

So far anecdotally, my wife, my daughter and now my father who just witnessed TLJ on Netflix dislike this movie (except for Williams score). My daughter initially kind of enjoyed Rey, but as my enthusiasm waned, so did hers. She just doesn't/didn't like Forces of Destiny, and just doesn't really like SW as far as I can tell anymore which is okay - I am done trying to gently influence. I was drawing pictures of Luke above the Sarlacc pit at 6. My brother in law = not a huge fan that liked TLJ, but said he just didn't have time to go to Solo. I did go to Solo.


I guess that is a concern for future brand in my eyes. Apathy.

 

I have to respectfully disagree. He writes: "I’ve seen a fair amount of these same “I’m not a troglodyte” defenders toss off opinions that exemplify the exact kinds of subconscious racism and stealth sexism that those same troglodytes proclaim loudly." He is basically saying "hey, you may not think you're a racist/sexist when you criticize this movie, but you sure are engaging in a lot of the same racist/sexist behavior, so do the math...."

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 5, 2018 ---

And some of the people who enjoyed TLJ obviously don't know the first thing about films or filmmaking.

If you think the "loved it" group is any more knowledgeable about filmmaking or Star Wars lore, you are sadly mistaken.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018 ---

Clearly you are just making things up out of thin air and stating things which are not true simply because you want them to be true (as is typical in your posts).

 

Adding Trump's account in? Are you serious? What the hell does Donald Trump have to do with any of this? I can't stand it when people throw politics and political figures into an argument for no good reason. You hit the nail on the head with your childish and unprofessional description. Lucasfilm can't possibly be this unaware of what this behavior is resulting in. Or maybe they're just too arrogant to realize it and think that people will continue to pay for anything with the name Star Wars on it? Oh wait, the Solo box office numbers should have told them something about that...

 

Sorry to slam the door on your sleuthing skills, but the article was posted on Monday. I read it sometime on Wednesday earlier in the day, several hours before the link was posted in this forum.

What, do I need to reread before I am allowed to comment on it?

 

The Trump thing was a joke. Are you so angry that you ain´t can take in a joke?

Rian wrote on twitter to follow Christopher McQuarrie and seconds later all this idiots write stupid and mean things to Rian and Chris (because he was mention by Rian). This lead to Chris to take action against all crazy people out there. That lead to Rian embedded Trump in to is tweet as a joke.

 

Yes, I'm so angry!! The Trump thing was stupid and only shows the mentality of these people. I'm not even a big Trump fan, but that was childish. Maybe Rian and friends should stop whining on Twitter about all the meanies that didn't like his movie and work on other things. Like his supposed trilogy, shouldn't he be focusing on that instead of throwing fuel on fanbase fire on social media? "But the fanboys are sending him MEAN comments!" So rise above it, block them and don't engage with them. Act like the professional that you're supposed to be instead of stirring things up over and over again.

 

Yep RJ needs to let the past die. He needs to go back to work instead of hogging twitter and ego pressing his own film. It's gone, finito move on.

 

This is what he wrote. Now, everyone knows what he's trying to do here. It's the popular thing in Hollowood to bash Trump. Hell, I'm definetely no supporter of him...but...I'm not working for Disney making films that are supposed to have a mass appeal and try to be for everyone.

Trump got elected. He sure has a lot of supporters. WHY on Earth would you bring this in to SW? Is he not happy having enough split and division already? Is there suddenly not enough room for the 45% of the US population that voted for this guy? Are they all racists, bigots and manbabies too?

To me this just proves that Disney really need to get rid of RJ as soon as possible.

 

Ha! Thats rich. This thread clearly hasn't "moved on."

 

Should Disney part ways with James Gunn? Ron Howard? Mark Hamill? Carrie Fisher estate? Chris Evans? Brie Larson? (I could go on and on)? How about Warner Brothers should they part ways with J.K. Rowling?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 5, 2018 ---

Really you didnt get the joke. His inclusion of Christopher McQuarrie unfortunately had the effect of all the vile RJ haters going after Christopher. So RJ playing along tried to do the same to the Moron in Chief.

 

They can and should have their opinions. But I've never seen them bring SW into their political views. That will be very bad for business. In fact, it will just go to prove to the conservative alternate news outlets that SW has been taken over by people with a political agenda. Not good for business, and will just polarize it further.

Exactly, your words describing exactly what he was trying to say.

 

The alt-right (Moron base) brought even more politics into Star Wars. I say more because Star Wars has always been political.

 

Never like this... and this just proves their world view that Disney is working for the left with an agenda. It will create more disharmony where the fanbase shoudl try to come together, whatever their political views. There used to be quite enoigh to agree on and enjoy. We have the real world for that stuff, and far too much of it already.