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THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

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Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    169 vote(s)
    56.7%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    132 vote(s)
    44.3%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    179 vote(s)
    60.1%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    156 vote(s)
    52.3%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    112 vote(s)
    37.6%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    106 vote(s)
    35.6%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    151 vote(s)
    50.7%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    193 vote(s)
    64.8%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    131 vote(s)
    44.0%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    199 vote(s)
    66.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Commander

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    I certainly hope that not true about Wendig. Continuity is the most important aspect of saga like Star Wars.
     
  2. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    And why they fail.

    Hope RJ will take Yoda’s advice and learn from failure.
     
  3. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Jedi General

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    Just a general question for those that post on this thread regularly.....how long will you keep coming here? 6 more months? 1 year? 2 years?
     
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  4. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Commander

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    N
     
    #5084 TrumanJ, Oct 21, 2018 at 2:20 AM
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018 at 2:42 AM
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    The "Story Group" might possibly be the biggest disappointment for me of the whole Disney era. I whole-heartedly supported de-canonizing the old EU because, while I enjoyed a lot of those stories, it was a complete mish-mash of independent, non-continuous tales (some good, some bad) that really made no sense whatsoever if looked at in terms of being one huge canon. I was very much looking forward to a greater degree of cohesion from book to comic to TV to movie. Now, a couple years later, the new EU is proving to be just the same as the old EU. Don't get me wrong; some of the stories are very enjoyable. But there's just no "big picture" feeling that we were promised.

    I also think the non-linearity is becoming more and more difficult to keep track of for the casual fan. The movies are coming out in a completely non-linear order. Rebels was set way back when. Resistance set just back a little. The Mandalorian is set back more than a little but not way back. This comic is pre E4. That comic is pre E7. A book here, a book there.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Original Post Date: Oct 21, 2018 at 2:39 AM ---
    Chuck Wendig has now been fired from Marvel, so we don't have to worry about his comics anymore. He pretty much insulted half the fan base with his extreme political commentary. (I'd repost the tweets he made but they are so out there that it would violate this forum's TOS). Even the mini-series which he had been working on, which he said would still be coming out, has been postponed, perhaps indefinitely.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2018 at 2:47 AM ---
    For me, probably about another 14 months.... just under, actually....
     
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  6. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Commander

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    People need to learn to keep politics out of their social media.
     
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  7. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Until the new interviews, teasers and trailers come out for the new movie (EPIX), what else is there to talk about sequel trilogy wise until then? I'd expect people to continue to post in the love and hated threads until then.
     
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  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I agree, but it's worth noting it wasn't just typical political commentary that got him fired, like a comment in support of the Hawley-Smoot Tarriff or something like that. It wasn't even his usual routine (I will leave it up to the reader to determine "his usual routine" for themselves). He really went off the deep end IMHO. And while he tried to make it look like he was fired for something else, fact is you just can't represent a corporation which lives on family-based entertainment and rail against such a large portion of the consumer base.

    My theory - which I gladly admit is just a theory - is that he had received a warning in the past regarding his online shenanigans so he crossed a line in the sand his comic book editors had set.
     
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  9. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Jedi General

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    There are plenty of places to discuss things, this is the hatred of TLJ thread. Reason I asked is just a general question about how long you can discuss something you hate. For myself, I dislike and even hate a couple non- Star Wars movies but cannot understand creating a thread to discuss them, and then spending months there discussing. Just me....carry on then.
     
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  10. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel General

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    I loved the scene in Vector Prime where Han harshly brushes everyone off in the immediate aftermath of Chewie's death. Not Leia, not Lando, not a single one of his kids can bring him a smidgeon of comfort.

    It's a very heart-wrenching and human moment.

    You know the feeling certain people get when they like TLJ, and they don't feel any incentive to not post about how much they like it, much less to put some kind of expiration date on how long they'll keep posting about their love of it?

    Reverse that, and you've got your answer.

    Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of simply writing off the ST as just another batch of movies I don't like, because they aren't just any other movies I can write off. They are the continuation of the media franchise I reserve the most passion, knowledge, and affection for.

    If this was any other poorly-written Hollywood cash-grab, you can bet I wouldn't waste the time of day commenting on it. But the story and characters of Star Wars mean a lot to me, more than any film franchise. And to see it so poorly-handled, without any semblance of competence, planning, or creative vision isn't something I can casually hand-wave away.

    It means far more to me than that.
     
    #5090 Darth_Nobunaga, Oct 21, 2018 at 3:45 AM
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018 at 4:01 AM
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  11. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Well, I think that therein lies the difference.
    It's one to thing to not-like or hate a random movie, but the Star Wars stories are more personal to a lot of people than that. It's like the difference between the weird kid at school and a girl who broke your heart! :p

    But mainly, because Star Wars is a form of art, there's never going to be an end to the discussion, both positive and negative. We're still discussing the ingenuity of the OT, it's advancements to technology and filmmaking, the cast, etc. etc.
    So, it's reasonable that when a SW film doesn't live up to that standard, people will still discuss those reasons, along with why it may or may not be good art to begin with. I still get in discussions about whether or not the OT is even considered art!

    The conversation will continue as long as art is being debated.
     
    #5091 Stormagadon, Oct 21, 2018 at 4:03 AM
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018 at 11:41 PM
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  12. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Commander

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    Well put. This thread may be negative but in my opinion it’s because the people here are passionate about Star Wars.

    I wish I liked tlj. I’ve tried watching it multiple times to get into it. Having read over 400 Star Wars books, I was surprised by my dislike of tlj. I didn’t go into the theater wanting to hate tlj. It just happened. I appreciate having this thread cause it proves I’m not alone in my opinion.

    I hope to enjoy episode IX. But unfortunately I’ll probably have to wait until they start a new saga in the Star Wars universe. I don’t come to this website to only spread my dislike of the film. I enjoy talking with people who like Star Wars.

    If you like tlj, I’m happy for you. In fact, I’m jealous of you.
     
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  13. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Thank you. I'm afraid this thread has gone overboard in the past, but I think there is plenty of room for all sorts of discussion.

    I'm the same way, I walked into the theatre anxious and excited for what I was about to see... but left leaving thinking "I didn't like it?" It was unfathomable. I thought all sorts of things: "It was good, just not what I was expecting..." "No, that didn't make any sense..." "Did I actually see that?" The list went on.
    After watching in three times in theatres (I'm still a sucker! Haha), I found that I solidly and firmly believed that it was not a good movie. I hope one day my opinion will change.

    As I joked in my previous post, it was like a broken heart. Things were fine, sure there were some rough goings here and there, but the heart break was totally unexpected. I really enjoyed SOLO, and I am excited for The Mandolorian, but EP IX has some healing my heart to tend to.

    Like you, I am also jealous of the people who loved TLJ. I really wish I did.
     
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  14. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    I think you can discuss any topic as long it moves you. Which is why I fully expect both the hated and loved threads related to TLJ to continue on until there is a new movie to talk and speculate about. And even after that, I don't think there's some expiration date after which we are forbidden from expressing dislike for TLJ anymore than say (for example) we'd be forbidden from talking about what we liked about TFA.

    Just out of curiosity, is there a reason why you didn't pose a similar question in the Love Thread as well?
     
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  15. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    It's the most active thread in this forum. It is not forbidden to fuel the one for whose for loved the movie instead ...

    It's not our fault it that one is flat out dead for a long time.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Original Post Date: Oct 21, 2018 at 9:44 AM ---
    It's because we were less engaged in other franchises. We talked about ep VIII for 2 years and were absolutely excited to see it. And then this happened.
     
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  16. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel General

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    I think that's a bit of a silly question, but I'll do my best to answer it, although others have done a pretty good job at it already.

    Do people still complain about the Ewoks in RotJ? How about Bobba Fett's unceremonious death in the Sarlacc Pit? Jar Jar anyone? How about the lack of chemistry between Anakin and Padme? Gungans as a whole? How about kid Anakin destroying the base in TPM? How about the space worm? I could go on and on.

    These subjects were talked about for years, in some cases decades. Some will never go away and are still brought up whenever someone touts one particular film or praises another? TLJ seems to have more of those packed in then the others, though that of course is debatable. Not everyone has an issue with the space worm for example. That said, the more people challenge an opinion on some part of TLJ that they thought was bad and that part is defended as good, this thread goes on another page or 2 as everyone chimes in.

    @Stormagadon hits it on the nose, to @Stormagadon you listen :).

    Beyond that, a lot of us are still trying to figure out how deep our dislike of the film runs, the reasoning behind it. For example, someone came up with how impactful to Han Chewie's death was in the Vong series, how it impacted Han's character so profoundly and how that compared to Han's death in TFA. I hadn't thought of it in those terms and it struck a chord for me. It wasn't well addressed in TFA, but it happened at the end of the movie, I guess I expected it to reverberate strongly into TLJ. I expected Han's death to be akin to Ned Stark's. Instead I felt like it was brushed aside. Worse, it's now overshadowed by Luke's death.

    In a way, this thread is like an AA meeting lol. We're discussing our journey since we've viewed TLJ. We'd love to be able to drink and handle our booze, but we can't lol. As mentioned before, yes, there's been some tough spots before, but now we've mostly rounded the corners and are more welcoming than before. I guess you can question the benefit of having an AA thread for TLJ, but since we follow the rules and discuss things with civility, I don't see what the problem is.

    So finally, my answer, is probably never. Even if IX miraculously fixes all of our grievances, and we come to love the ST because of it, it will likely be in spite of TLJ, not because of it. So my question to you is, if this thread bothers you so much, how often will you come back and debate with us? How often will you come back and try and shame us for disliking TLJ? I don't need your answer, I know why, because I can find the answer within myself. It's because you're just as passionate about SW as we are, you simply experienced TLJ differently than us. The trick is for you to come to that answer and believe it. Until then, you'll keep on seeing this thread and those who frequent it as some sort of enemy/adversary/antagonist. We're not, but I think that's your perception.
     
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  17. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Rebel Official

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    I think this is the difference between the Standalones and Saga movies. If you notice, the Standalone threads are pretty much dead simply because the fans that love R1 and Solo are enjoying them right now (and commenting here and there), while the people who hated them have moved on. They are their own entity, so you can take them or leave them.

    The Saga movies (for better or worse) are all married to each other, so that is why there will always be a debate about them. If you liked TFA and didn't like TLJ, then it is hard to let TLJ go because it is part of a trilogy and they are supposed to connect. The ST connects to the OT, the PT, so there is this big puzzle and each movie is it's own piece. I can say for myself that I am truly conflicted towards TLJ and I have watched the movie 5-6 times now on BluRay. I love some parts of it, and hate some parts of it, so I post in the loved, mixed and hated TLJ threads here! LOL!

    I actually love to hear everyone's opinion of TLJ (pro and con) just to challenge my opinions of it, and maybe I'm seeing something wrong? I love to hear people's opinions about TLJ Luke cause that is the big part that has me conflicted. Part of me doesn't mind hermit/angry Luke because it takes the Saga in a fresh direction, but another part of me hates hermit/angry Luke when I watch the OT (especially the ending of ROTJ).

    I actually think the fact that fans are still debating a franchise that is 40 years old says alot about what Lucas created. Nobody here is debating the special effects, or the action scenes, we are all debating the story and character arcs. Are Marvel fans debating any of those movies in that specific sense? Are Jurassic Park fans debating those movies too, cause those were the other blockbusters this summer? I think the last movie franchise that was heavily debated in deep way was the Matrix sequels, even though they weren't well received.

    This is why I still say that SW is the best franchise out there because there are real debates going, as most franchises the fans tend to move on to the next blockbuster. In saying that, we should all be in therapy! LOL!
     
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  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Rebel Official

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    I always thought that dressing him up in his Jedi Outfit was a cheat to the fans since he cut himself off from the Force. I think it would have been interesting if we see Luke in TFA and he is dressed normal (like ANH Luke), so people may have speculated that he gave up on the Jedi Order and the Lightsaber flip wouldn’t have been so shocking.
     
    #5098 Jedi77-83, Oct 21, 2018 at 10:49 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2018 at 11:40 PM
  19. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Commander

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    Your 100% correct. I know a movie can’t replicate a moment like a book can. Hell I can’t replicate a book in real life. But I think a possible answer to why we maybe having an issue with this is because life is moving so fast. Movies move quicker now a days as well. Nobody has time for anything. We want everything immediately.
    Maybe with Star Wars we don’t want it so quickly. We want to take our time and enjoy it. Maybe part of the problem was to much to fast without enough substance or context. I don’t know. I’m sure it’s different for everyone.
     
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  20. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel General

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    I dunno, when I read that scene, it kind of hearkened back to ^this scene from ROTS. It was a slow, intricate, emotionally-stifling moment that relied on music and facial expressions to anchor the audience in what the characters were feeling. I think this kind of moment can exist in the films just as it can in books, with the exact kind of emotional impact.

    The big difference, I think, is that ROTS was willing to slow itself down to have this kind of moment, which TFA and TLJ move at too much of a brisk and numbing pace for moments like this to happen (on top of the story actually making me give a crap about what was going on beforehand, which was NOT the case with Han's death in TFA).
     
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