1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

?

Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    192 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    148 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    200 vote(s)
    59.5%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    181 vote(s)
    53.9%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    128 vote(s)
    38.1%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    123 vote(s)
    36.6%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    176 vote(s)
    52.4%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    219 vote(s)
    65.2%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    147 vote(s)
    43.8%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    225 vote(s)
    67.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,285
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,976
    Ratings:
    +6,712 / 176 / -38
    I know exactly what you are talking about when they show Kylo bleeding from being shot by Chewie. But he totally whoops her in the first part of the fight, and then you say she gave herself to the force? When did she even learn about the Force? I thought that would be explained in TLJ, but Rey just seems to pickup any force skills easily like picking up rocks at the end of TLJ without ever failing as there is no explanation.

    Luke failed many times before in the movies (trying to lift the X-wing, getting totally manhandled by Vader, etc). And before you say that he blew up the Death Star with ease, that plot point was made like that in 1977 in the context of a a standalone movie not knowing about future sequels, as Lucas even said he wouldn't have blown up the Death Star til ROTJ.

    The last time I checked, he changed clothes the scene AFTER he flipped the Lightsaber, so maybe there was a sale the weekend before Rey showed up . ;) Kenobi was still using the Force (probably communicating with Yoda or QuiGon) in his exile on Tatooine as he still carried his and Anakin's lightsaber. He never gave up on the Jedi Order, Luke gave up on the Jedi Order so he should have been dressed in the clothes he changed at the beginning of TLJ.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  2. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Trophy Points:
    12,667
    Credits:
    4,190
    Ratings:
    +4,437 / 50 / -22
    Luke and Rey had 2 distinct personalities. Yoda tells you the answers in ESB and even again in TLJ. Rey believed from the moment Han said that it is all real. Luke tried to lift the X-Wing and he let the size of it bring out his non belief. So much of the time Luke spends on Dagobah with Yoda is about his luke warm belief. Yoda tells him that is why you fail. Rey doesnt have that issue so picking up rocks for goodness sake is no big deal. It is also bogus that you can accept Luke and the Death Star and not give Rey any benefit of the doubt. She lived a much harsher life then Luke and had to learn how to take care of herself far more then Luke did. Luke had a family and Obi-Wan in the shadows always taking care of him.

    As for Luke and Vader he held his own very much like Rey and even struck Vader. Still this is more because Vader never planned to kill him. Vader held back and would have wiped the floor had he intended to kill Luke. Kylo likely would have done same to Rey had he been told to kill her rather then bring her back to Snoke.

    In the era that Luke is raised in stories of the Jedi are basically forbidden. In the era that Rey is raised in the Jedi (Luke) are again legendary and the powers of the Jedi are discussed. She heard about the Force. Han tells her that it is all true, Maz reiterates that and the lightsaber giving her the flashback solidifies that.

    I will say after this your problem isnt TLJ it is TFA. You didnt want a continuation of the story you wanted basically an explanation for TFA. You wanted more reasons why Rey was able to beat a guy who didnt want to kill her. Who trained her to fight, who trained her in the force because no way no how she could have beaten a guy who wanted to take her captured while he was bleeding out ( I still cant believe people simply discount how badly wounded Kylo was by the bow-caster ).
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2018 ---
    Who said he only had 1 outfit. That is pretty gross. We also see Luke actually folding clothes in one scene, or was that in a deleted scene, still doesn't matter he has at least a few outfits. Still cant believe this is an issue. Luke failed and he was ashamed he was given his sister and best friends child and failed. He put himself in self-exile and this wasnt TLJ. This was setup in the opening scroll of TFA. He ran away. We knew that. He didnt want to be found, not even by his sister and that was all in TFA not TLJ.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  3. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131
    And still, the map to Luke is the very plot of TFA ...

    If he didn't want to be found, he wouldn't had tell Lor San Tekka where he was or left any clue to where he was.

    Why did he chose the first jedi temple to cut himself from the Force ? Hiding in the wampa's cave would have make a better choice.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Trophy Points:
    12,667
    Credits:
    4,190
    Ratings:
    +4,437 / 50 / -22
    The plot is the star map (or whatever you called it) that showed where Luke went had a piece ripped out. We dont know if the piece Lor San Tekka found is the one Luke ripped out of the map or a duplicate. If Luke wanted to be found I do believe he would have at least let his sister know where she could find him. Of all people to hide where he went.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131
    The exact line is people who knew him best thought he went looking for the first jedi temple. ( as a purpose ).

    Since Leia and Han didn't know, they're not counted in these people according to The Force Awakens.

    Because coincidence or not, he was there.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Posts:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    2,484
    Trophy Points:
    7,817
    Credits:
    3,686
    Ratings:
    +3,422 / 32 / -16
    In TFA I understood that the Jedi temple they suspected Luke to have gone to was in an unknown location... and that, by looking at the portion of the map bb8 had, it was impossible to make out where Luke’s planet was.

    I also got the impression that Luke was suspected to have gone to this sacred place, but nobody knew for certain... and that Lor san Tekka just happened to know the location of this remote temple no one else had been able to find.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  7. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Trophy Points:
    12,667
    Credits:
    4,190
    Ratings:
    +4,437 / 50 / -22
    You lost me. People who knew him best. Of course that would be Han and Leia. Key word. Thought. That wasnt the case. He didnt go to look for the first Jedi temple. He went into exile at the first Jedi temple. So they were partially right, but not 100%.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131


    43 sec.

    People who known him best thought he went looking for the first jedi temple.

    I'm not trying to argue, I'm just stating facts from ep VII. You can interpret it at your will, it is just what it is.
     
  9. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Posts:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    2,484
    Trophy Points:
    7,817
    Credits:
    3,686
    Ratings:
    +3,422 / 32 / -16
    How does looking for the Jedi temple contradict Luke going into exile? I don’t see the problem.
     
  10. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131
    I didn't say that. Did I ?

    This line just said that Han and Leia weren't the people who known him best and that he went on purpose looking for the first jedi temple and that some people had clues.

    I just said that it is weird since you want to disappear and cut yourself from both the world and the Force.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Trophy Points:
    12,667
    Credits:
    4,190
    Ratings:
    +4,437 / 50 / -22
    You dont think Han was talking about Leia and himself? Thats who I believe Han is talking about.

    Isnt it conventional wisdom that Yoda hid on Dagobah because it was so strong in the force it would be easier for him to hide out. Couldnt that be the same about Luke and Ahch-To?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131
    Obviously no. Because it is weird to adress himself and his ex wife ( don't know if they were married but whatever ) as "people".

    And as far as I know there is no mention of Luke being with Han and Leia in the books released to sum up the gap between RoTJ and TFA. 25 years is a long time and you meet different people.

    Yoda never cut himself from the Force and if he did, when the Force bringed him the new hope, he didn't refuse his duty and so did Obi Wan.

    That's a major difference because even if Luke did what he did. A wise man should know there is no coincidence and that if an apprentice did a very long journey to meet his master, it was a call from the Force and time to fix the things he did.

    That's how I see it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Posts:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    2,484
    Trophy Points:
    7,817
    Credits:
    3,686
    Ratings:
    +3,422 / 32 / -16
    I think Han was talking about Leia.
    you want to disappear and cut yourself from both the world and the Force.[/QUOTE]
    It’s believable to think Luke went to ahch to to hide from the world, think things over and find answers. He became a man of the Jedi cloth, so to speak, a thinker and a philopher of sorts... where else would a person like that go to get out of the way and die? If a catholic bishop had a faith crisis I can easily imagine him going to an ancestral monastery to find answers in solitude, like others before him. Doesn’t it make sense for Luke to do the same?
     
    #5153 Kylocity, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131
    Ok Leia is people. Why not ?

    I've just remembered( because I used to be a funny guy ), there is somewhere in this forum a thread about what was Luke searching for on the island and I answered for the joke that he went fishing. I guess you will find some funny ratings and not much of a great post on it.

    That's the irony.

    PS : If you really want solitude and don't want to be found, don't leave any clue behind you because obviously he has been found.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Trophy Points:
    12,667
    Credits:
    4,190
    Ratings:
    +4,437 / 50 / -22
    Ok well you are the first person I have been in a discussion with that thought Han was talking about someone other then himself and Leia. Didnt say Yoda cut himself off from the Force. Difference between Yoda/Obiwan and Luke is Luke was the new hope and they also had Leia. Luke lost them all not only did he lose his nephew he lost all of his students, half to death and half to the dark side.

    I dont see how people can forgive Luke for running away to the First Jedi Temple with the Resistance/New Republic at its darkest time. You have Kylo, Snoke and The First Order getting ready to run roughshod over the galaxy, but not OK that he put himself in exile. To me that is the more forgivable Luke.

    Hell if I was his friends/family I would be like what the hell you could take on the Emperor and Darth Vader and the whole empire but you cant take on Snoke and Kylo Ren. You need to find something at some ancient temple.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131
    I'm not sure I would use the word people if I talk about myself and my wife.

    I may say "we" which is a pretty useful word to include yourself in something you're involved.

    It is not difficult to imagine that they had no clue where Luke was, they weren't even able to know where their own son was ... And one had rather hunt raghtars and the other to lead a war with barely 400 people ...
     
    #5156 Bandini, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  17. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    Trophy Points:
    12,667
    Credits:
    4,190
    Ratings:
    +4,437 / 50 / -22
    So you have discovered the largest of what some people would call the biggest plot hole in the ST, one no one is talking about, who is Luke's new closest friends.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,539
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,228
    Ratings:
    +10,282 / 461 / -131

    There are many many things we don't know about Luke during the gap between RoTJ and TFA. We just know he had a Charles Manson moment and that he met Del Meeko at some point to get his compass.

    And that he went fishing.

    If you don't have to know who is Snoke, you won't talk about Luke's friends. They're "people".

    I've learned since several months that backstories are clearly overrated.
     
  19. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Posts:
    99
    Likes Received:
    2,629
    Trophy Points:
    7,657
    Credits:
    1,489
    Ratings:
    +2,690 / 17 / -14
    I agree basically with everything you typed. I thought AOTA was better than the TPM. I’ll watch ep. IX when it’s out of the theaters. I think tlj was the worst just cause of the story line. I loved solo and R1.

    It seems to me Disney and everyone in the decision making authority decided they didn’t want to have to pay millions to mark Carrie and Harrison. I also think part of it was they owned it so they made it theirs. They didn’t care about what happened in the past with the books or the fans reactions to the books. They didn’t do any research as to what fans liked and disliked about the books. I could be wrong, but i doubt it. I think they just figured all Star Wars fans would be happy cause now the story continues.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2018 ---
    The reason I started liking Star Wars and Star Trek was because it seemed to me when I was a kid that everyone was treated equal by the good guys. It kinda seemed natural. With this new trilogy it seems forced. I believe in equality for all. It would be nice if the movies would just naturally show that in the more advanced cultures, as if equality was already dealt with.

    I’m glad you connected with these two new movies. I just wish Luke Leia and Han would’ve had a proper send off. Give them Most of the screen time and then put them out to pasture. This was supposed to be the end of the skywalker saga. It seems like episode vi was the end to me.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018 ---
    I think it’s a stretch that Poe becomes a leader. All he did was disobey orders and create a mutiny that was a waste of time and didn’t work.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018 ---
    I understand how you’re trying to quantify your point of view. But all people who are good or great at something need time to become adept at something. I taught myself to play the drums. I couldn’t play Rush properly for years. I could play basic beats early on. I needed to learn focus and discipline. It’s one thing to believe in something but another to understand that something. She may have a natural ability, but to understand something that took students years to master in no time at all is a little ridiculous. I understand Luke was a quick learner. I’m not saying that Rey shouldn’t be as quick or quicker, but to just do it without direction or guidance is unfathomable. Luke believed in the force. He just needed a push to control it. It’s like Rey is creating the force. Just my opinion.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018 ---
    Forgive me if I’m wrong but we saw two points of view. We didn’t see the third view that was the correct view. I also have a hard time accepting this part of the story. I understand people have weak moments but when I originally watched it in the theater, I couldn’t believe they would portray Luke this way. It’s probably the scene I disliked the most.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018 ---
    @Kylocity @KeithF1138 @Bandini

    I have a problem with the exile thing. From episode vii to episode viii. I figured from watching episode vii from the flashes/visions, that Luke knew they would find him eventually, when the time was right for him to return. That’s why he put his hand on r2d2’s head to know when to wake up to finish the map. Also they didn’t need the part of the map Poe got. They just needed r2d2’s. Tell me some droid programmer couldn’t get the info out.

    Anyways... Luke shouldn’t be surprised that he was found, he left bread crumbs. Otherwise r2d2 should never have woken up again. And I thought he had a vision of the future and he knew it was a long time away. That to me is where the continuity of the two movies failed. JJ Went one way, RJ took a left turn. Just my opinion. I could have missed something.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  20. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,453
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,798
    Ratings:
    +78,246 / 26 / -13
    i agree with you.. but he also said this:-
    i don't think you'd talk about your own son like that either.. but he clearly was.

    everything he said during that scene was kinda odd.. from a certain point of view
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page