THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

@Darth_Nobunaga - It’s a long series but I enjoy long stories. The next 2 series after this one are good as well in my opinion.

 

I had every book from the Courtship of Princess Leia through to the end of the Vong series. When it got DE canonized, I first felt a pang of loss and debated things for a few days, then I got 100% on board the Disney bandwagon and got rid of my collection (including short stories) so that I can immerse myself into in the new lore (face palm) without distraction. Even with a few days, it was both impulse and dedication to what was to come.

Needless to say I greatly regret it.

I had issues with the EU. The lack of continuity, I often found the climaxes over done or simply implausible (star crusher anyone). So my dislike of those types of elements already existed well before the ST and TLJ. I liked Kyp until the climax of that first series, then I didn't mind him when they reined him back as a counter weight to Luke's teachings. There were multiple issues in the EU to be sure, but with all those books, I don't think any single series had as many as TLJ did in a single movie (imo). In other words, TLJ created as much bad product as the entire of the EU did in decades of books all condensed into one. Had I known that, I would have never placed my trust in Disney and would have added my name to petitions and sent in letters to protest their desire to a new direction (even realizing it would be to no avail and futile).

The good news is that most of those books can be picked up at a used books store for under 5$ Canadian each, so yeah, this Christmas I'll have a bundle under my tree of SW stuff, it just won't be anything Disney has made.

Honestly, I wish they had used the EU as Marvel used it's rich comic history. I know it would have required them working with those authors, but I honestly think that would have been a good thing. It would have given the galaxy a sense of scale that it now lacks, and depth that is now non existent.

I think in some ways, this may play out as better for those who love TLJ. Because if it does eventually grow on fans and get accepted into the lore (if not with disgruntled fans like me, then maybe with new fans coming into the fold), then all these dismal toy sells, all the memorabilia that is not as hotly contested could be gems in the future. The lovers are buying all this swag, and if you wait you can even get many of it at huge discounts. As someone said before, some aspect are thriving while others are struggling. I think some of the unpopular things now could become very prized down the line once they get people in those domains to fix those issues.

I remember about 2 months ago walking in my local Walmart and seeing a bunch of 20$ figures on clearance for 5$. I was tempted to pick up the one figure of Thrawn, because well, it's Thrawn lol. I passed on it. Two days later I was reconsidering and returned and the figures were gone. I assumed sold.

Two weeks ago I found those figures at the local Dollarama going for 4$. I plan on picking up a Thrawn figurine from there as the shelves were jammed full of them. It's a gamble, but maybe some of these things, kept in pristine condition (not so much Thrawn, but ST related figures) could be worth a mint down the line. Getting them at rock bottom prices could maximize profits. It's a gamble, but at 4$, not much of one.

 

I watched the TFA last night (this is the first time I have watched it after multiple viewings of TLJ since it's release on BluRay). I was a big fan of TFA (I watched it 20 times on BluRay) simply because it had great pacing and sense of adventure like the OT, but the mystery plot points really made it more interesting to see where it was going for Episode 8 and 9. The pacing, humor and sense of adventure in TFA were still there, but the mystery is pretty much gone from the movie because there are so many disappointing resolutions in TLJ.

The first thing I noticed was in the opening crawl where it actually states that Leia sent her most DARING pilot (Poe Dameron) to Jakuu, then in TLJ she is demoting him for daring??? The whole sense of mystery is gone with Rey as the Lightsaber calls to her, Maz says that her destiny is forwards leading to Luke, and her sudden force powers all come up short in resolution of TLJ. The Lightsaber calling to her (along with Kenobi speaking to her) really rings hollow now and sort of doesn't make sense. Her destiny meeting Luke is a letdown now after what transpires in TLJ, and her sudden force powers are still not explained, and any explaination by the Pro-TLJ fans that she is acquiring her skills through Kylo is pretty lame. And of course the ending with Luke in TFA just makes me think of the Lightsaber Flip, and I feel like I'm watching Spaceballs.

Whatever way you want to slice it, TFA or TLJ suffers (depending on your POV). TFA feels like cheat, if you don't like TLJ, or TFA pales in comparison if you like TLJ. In a sense, the 2 movies really don't work as a narrative as I think a lot of fans will take the side of one or the other. I don't know if Episode 9 can really save things for fans like me, as the narrative just doesn't work but we'll see......

 

I find it's difficult to enjoy TFA as much as I did previously knowing how much of the intrigue is tied of and strangled to death in TLJ. There is nothing to look forward to in EPIX except the end. I doubt it can be salvaged either. Allowing these stories to be created with a lack of continuity and coherency provides what I believe to be an insurmountable obstacle for EPIX. How do you get people excited for it? What type of trailer do you have to put together to get people to care about it like they did TFA and TLJ? I just don't know how they'll do it.

I'll be happy if they do, but I don't see how they will

 

I honestly think Disney will try to woo fans like us with as much nostalgia in the trailers as possible. Lucas did this with the 1st ROTS teaser showing Obiwan talking Luke about the Jedi and the Empire at the beginning.

While Disney has held back in Episode 7 & 8 trailers, I think they’ll throw everything but the kitchen sink in the Episode 9 trailers. You can bet Luke or Force Ghost Luke will be in it doing something crazy. You can bet Lando and Leia will be in it, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they threw some OT character ‘out of context’ to pick our curiosity like a hologram of The Emperor or something like that.

They lost us on the narrative of Episode 9, because as you said, there is nothing storywise to look forward to. So now it’s all about nostalgia and the wow factor. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

Your right about the EU not being perfect. The Star crusher was a bit over the top but it was a way to create something more powerful. Real page turners the EU was not....but they all worked with each other. There was continuity it wasn’t perfect, but there was definitely more continuity in the whole EU than in episode 7 & 8. The books weren’t all great. But I enjoyed them all. When I started re-reading them not long after I watched TLJ, I decided to read all of the books, (except the Chrystal Star, I really didn’t like it).

Yes there were problems with those books. The fans found ways to express their problems with those stories. Disney had an opportunity to research the issues that Lucas film had received from the fans and use the information to use the best parts of the EU to finish the story so they could ultimately end the skywalker story, which is all they wanted to do. Even though it ended in part vi in my opinion. Parts 7 & 8 have nothing to do with the skywalkers in my opinion.

The vong series wasn’t perfect, there were some ideas that were used that shouldn’t have been able to work in the universe, but in the end, I still enjoyed the 21 books. It’s okay to not like every aspect of a story or to not agree with it, but with all the problems I have with the EU, they are still fewer than TFA and TLJ.

 

Whau... I do feel the same as you about 7,8 and 9 but that leads me basically to the opposite
reaction.
Not that it is a problem of course.
But it’s funny to notice how things may turn so differently.
If there’s something I am sure about it’s I won’t see ix the opening night.
For the first time ever. Just because the last time it was the worst experience I ever had
in a theater. Quite painful. Not just disappointing.
I don’t even know if I’ll go to see ep IX at all.
I’ll read the spoilers first - not even reviews: spoilers - and only then I’ll make my decision.
And I don’t care about Kylo’s redempion at all.
He may be, he may be not. For me it doesn’t change, that much.

I just want him... to die.
I don’t see any other way to end this saga with a little bit of dignity
At this point, my only wish is for the legacy to be carried out by people who actually deserve it.
No matter their surnames.

But I guess it all comes down to the way we feel about the Skywalkers saga in general.
I wish they’ll really end it all with IX. Even more so now that it has become pretty obvious
IMO how hard it is - no matter what - to move forward a story endlessly.
I have literally zero interest in X, XI, XII.

While I’ll definitely give a chance to the D&D serie... that for sure.

However, given what I saw in VII and VIII, I’d rather prefer to be established once and for all,
Ben was the one who screw up his family, than the contrary - as they tried to let us to buy
to the point of turning Luke not only in a broken man, but in a almost child killer.
I just hope, at least his visions will be proven right,

 

@Stormagadon

That’s an interesting theory about snoke being behind the visions. And a great theory. But I would like to think Luke would be strong enough to see it as a ploy rather than be fooled by snoke. Luke should be stronger in the force than snoke and more experienced.
I know palpatine was able to fool the Jedi, but not with the force. He hid himself from the force when around the jedi and he used politics to ultimately win in the end. It was a well thought out elaborate plan that took many years to come to fruition.

 

I remember about 2 months ago walking in my local Walmart and seeing a bunch of 20$ figures on clearance for 5$. I was tempted to pick up the one figure of Thrawn, because well, it's Thrawn lol. I passed on it. Two days later I was reconsidering and returned and the figures were gone. I assumed sold.

Two weeks ago I found those figures at the local Dollarama going for 4$. I plan on picking up a Thrawn figurine from there as the shelves were jammed full of them. It's a gamble, but maybe some of these things, kept in pristine condition (not so much Thrawn, but ST related figures) could be worth a mint down the line. Getting them at rock bottom prices could maximize profits. It's a gamble, but at 4$, not much of one.[/QUOTE]

I know this won't be popular. I say this as a fan with collectables I purchased as a child in the 1970's.

Do not buy anything collectable as an investment. Buy stocks. Buy index funds.

I have a massive collection I need to sell; finding a way to list it and then find a buyer, ship it and hope the transaction clears is PITA. I know the $75 spent buying the MOC/MIP Lando POTF 1984 general action figure w cape in 1994, put into the S&P500 fund would have multiples may times over.

I absolutely regret buying this collection from 1977-2014. It's just a massive amount of stuff.

Listen, or not.

 

I agree, I just don't think nostalgia can carry a feature length movie of the Star wars variety. It might be their best shot, but I just don't think it's enough (see SOLO). Having said that, a quick glimpse of a hologram of the Emperor would probably set the rumor mill on fire. Imagine people speculating that Palpatine was in fact actually Plagueis and not dead. People might forgive everything if they do a Plagueis fan service. LOL.

Ironically, while I've been largely indifferent to Kylo's redemption, he might be the only character with anything to look forward to in EPIX. Does he develop into the new Emperor? Does he turn back? Is he involved in some way in Leia's death? These are things we actually have to look forward to, probably the only things we have to look forward to. Honestly, if they had wanted to, and if they had done it from the start, they could have made Kylo THE main character and told the story from the FO's perspective principally, with the the Resistance as the antagonist. This way when they don't really advance Finn or Rey or Poe's arc, it wouldn't matter because they were support characters. Would we enjoy it? I don't know, people might go for it if it was a reboot, but with OT characters around they might not go for storytelling from the bad guy's POV. But at least it would be different.

 

Just finished to play KOTOR and KOTOR2 again. Actually, Bioware people should take over the story group.

 

I love the self-fulfilled prophecies/visions trope, but several details don't work for me in this particular case.
First we're told in both TFA and TLJ that Ben problems were there even before that night.
Leia sent him to Luke because of that, Luke read his mind because something was already wrong.

What TFA didn't explain and TLJ too, is what Leia meant when she said "It was Snoke".

I know a novel seems to imply that Ben was/is under a kind of brainwashing... but that's an interpretation of a vague
quote and above all, the problem is movies have to explain that - to be good movies - and they don't.

However, let's say they are or will, to me the point with Luke... is just that I cannot buy he did what TLJ said it did, because
he had a vision about the future.
Luke would have tried to make that future not happening.
He knew "the future always in montion it is"

 

Let's face it, Luke & Han were basically used as a tool to drive the drama for Ben Solo and the ST with no regards to how it would affect their characters legacy going way back to ANH. Think about that, they had 2 of the most beloved characters in the franchise, and they were one and done in each movie for the Trilogy just to get to Ben Solo to turn to the darkside. They could have approached turning Ben Solo a million ways, but they sacrificed Luke (pulling his lightsaber on him) and Han (being a crummy dad). Sorry, but I didn't wait 30 years to see that story about Luke, Leia and Han, they would have been better off not having them in the Trilogy.

Now if they had used Luke, Leia and Han throughout the ST in all 3 movies in a way that they drove the drama of Ben Solo, but still got an interesting ending in Episode 9, then it would have been worth it. But we get 1 movie of Han (dead), and we get 1 movie of Luke + 30 seconds of TFA (dead), and 3 different flashbacks as to why Ben Solo turned? They could have maybe had him turn in Episode 7, and you would have atleast understood his motives regarding how Han, Luke and Leia handled him. In the end, they became throwaway characters to the real story regarding the ST, IMO.

 

Han and Leia should of got back together in TFA, just before sacrificing themselves for the Resistance. Carrie Fisher, bless her, was the least likely to complete all three films with her health problems so seemed rather poor planning to have her in all three films. The focus should of been on Luke. I can cope with them splitting if Han maybe blamed Leia's involvement in the Resistance for Ben turning to the dark side, because she wasn't there for Ben, but instead spent time away from the family for politics.

 

There is going to be a time jump. So doubt that very much. It means to me that the fear of EP6 retread is not something to worry about.

 

I’d say at this point there was not reason at all to have Han and Leia separeted.
I won’t say that JJ and Kasdan took that decision because they have figured
in details Ben/Kylo backstory (it may be, it may be not), but at least that choice was made
to leave any chance open in a future movie.
Not to mention... how and why the millennium falcon was stolen?
All those things are details that could have been used in the next installments to answer some questions.
But not... instead of using those chances, they came up with something else...

It’s like Rey’s visions.

I’m perfectly fine with her being unrelated. That is what I took from her conversation with Maz.
But... you should have come with an answer tied with those fuc***** visions.
If you use that trope, that trope implies a pay off.