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THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

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Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    170 vote(s)
    56.3%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    134 vote(s)
    44.4%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    181 vote(s)
    59.9%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    159 vote(s)
    52.6%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    114 vote(s)
    37.7%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    107 vote(s)
    35.4%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    154 vote(s)
    51.0%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    196 vote(s)
    64.9%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    132 vote(s)
    43.7%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    203 vote(s)
    67.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Rebel Trooper

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    I'm ok with them split if there was a good reason - I don't think a good one was presented. I agree with you about the Falcon as well, would of perhaps been cool if Ben/Kylo had stolen the Falcon if the whole breakdown with Luke had happened during a visit by Han and Leia to the temple. There are a lot of rumours around at the moment that suggest JJ is going to attempt to give the fans what they want, we shall see.
     
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  2. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Rebel Official

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    I would have been fine with Hermit/Angry Luke if they developed it over 3 movies, and he was there at the end of Episode 9 (still alive) to pass the torch to Rey (which actually could have set up another Trilogy if they really planned it right). I think I posted this somewhere (possibly this thread) but:

    Episode 7: Ben Solo turns on Luke at the end of the movie, as the first part of the movie develops their relationship and a different/better story then just Luke turning his lightsaber on him one fateful night.

    Episode 8: Luke goes all hermit, and Rey tries to bring him back to fight the War (similar to Episode 8, but now we understand everyone's motivies).

    Episode 9: Luke comes back to fight for the Resistance (and is redeemed from a certain point of view). He fights the final battle with Rey (possibly sacrificing himself) and passes the torch to her at the end of the movie.
     
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  3. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    If Ep VIII ended with Kylo Ren giving his hands to Rey with Luke still on Acht To, it would change it completely.
     
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  4. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Rebel Trooper

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    The thing about your concept is that we get back to using the time between the films to further the story, using the crawl to full effect (something TLJ failed). So now we have Hamill without a beard throughout VII, an understanding of the development of the Resistance and First Order in the aftermath of RotJ (the general moviegoer does not read all the Star Wars books required to fill gaps in the story). Skip a good number of years with Luke now missing and combine elements of TFA and TLJ for VIII, though I would be reluctant to have the Resistance facing defeat at the end since its similar to TESB (I'm not keen on running low on fuel or the tracking through hyperspace, as tracking was used in AotC and ANH in a different way). To be honest there isn't much I would use from TLJ. Once more a time jump and use the opening crawl to further the story, then use all those pothooks set up by JJ to give a fantastic ending for IX.

    The failure perhaps stems from the fear of taking a risk with the first film in the ST.
     
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  5. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    I've said something similar to this before. You could also have done with with a film or two as a lead in to VII. Seeing as how they wanted to "do a Marvel Cinematic Universe" they should have followed that blueprint. Do two "lead up films" with Mark Hamill as Luke. Show him doing his thing with Ben. Develop the relationship. If they didn't want to do 2 films then do one.

    2015: Lead up film to Episode VII. Star Wars: Luke Skywalker. Show Luke as a bad ass. Give the people what they wanted. But you can have Ben turn at the end.
    2016: VII The Force Awakens
    2017: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (still love this film even if I hate the "A Star Wars Story" subtitle)
    2018: Have a film that show Luke training Rey.
    2019: VIII This now allows you the time to develop a proper script which doesn't have all of the contradictions/plot holes and just sheer BS of TLJ
    2020: A film about Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren?
    2021: Rey building the "new Jedi order"?
    2022: IX

    I know I've said it a million times, but it sucks that they allowed Rian Johnson to just go off half cocked on this film and essentially reboot the reboot while, at the same time, ignoring the mythology of the Star Wars galaxy that had been built up. Not to mention all the other silliness in that film. Gosh it makes me have a newfound respect for TPM AND AOTC.
     
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  6. Rellum

    Rellum Clone Commander

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    I think there is an excellent chance we see the Emperor or Vader in some way during the trailer, more than 50%. They will resort to that to try and get a buzz going.
     
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  7. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel General

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    I'm not convinced that would even work. I think it would feel contrived and desperate. It certainly would not feel like a natural progression to this trilogy. I know if I'd see Vader or the Emperor in the trailer I'd probably roll my eyes. I'm 50/50 if I'm going to watch IX in theaters. I know I won't be there opening weekend. I also know I'll be taking in as many spoilers as I can. I hope if they do have Vader or the Emperor in there, it's not the actual person or a clone, but rather a holocron or hologram or something.

    All that said, I could definitely see them misreading a portion of the fan base and doing a misstep like this. As others have mentioned, it's not easy to figure out what the fans want out of this trilogy anymore. Even among lovers I think they'll disappoint many whatever they do.

    Honestly, at this point they should just stay as true to the story they initially planned, the broad strokes if you will rather than go out of their way to do some fan pleasing nonsense that will likely backfire on them. As much as I hate to admit it, they should make this movie for the lovers, because people like me who are already unimpressed are not likely to change out minds about the ST.
     
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  8. Rellum

    Rellum Clone Commander

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    Of course. Doesn't mean they won't do it. It would end up being a holocron or one of those holodroids the Emperor left behind, Then we get to see Luke and Anakin as force ghosts, reminiscing about Tatooine.

    Maybe not reminiscing as Anakin will probably have a duh moment when the light bulb goes off that Luke was hiding on his home planet with name Skywalker. That might be a bit awkward.
     
  9. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel General

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    Maybe Anikan can have pillow talk with Luke about how Anikan hates sand. I'm sure Luke could appreciate his dislike of sand.
     
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  10. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Rebel Trooper

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    Totally agree. Despite the let the past die line, its going to have links a plenty with the PT and OT this time around.
     
  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:39 PM, Original Post Date: Nov 8, 2018 at 7:31 PM ---
    I agree with this, and I also expect E9 to tie in quite well with E7, and not so much with E8. This makes sense not only because of the disaster that was E8, but because of the creative talent coming back to E9 that did E7 (and E8's director doesn't really seem to be involved much at all).
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM ---
    When Disney first took over LFL and announced 5 films in 5 years, with the 1st, 3rd and 5th being E7, E8 and E9, none of us knew what the other 2 would be. I was thinking they were going to do what the MCU does. Have E7, then an in between film that only has one character from E7 (and maybe a guest appearance from other supporting characters).

    I would have loved a situation where we have E7. Then a year later is a Rey movie where she does something on her own and we learn about the character. Then the whole gang gets back together for E8. Then we have an in-between movie that focuses on, say, Luke. Then E9 wraps everything up.
    I agree. And while the prequels are far from perfect, you can see an incredibly cohesive trilogy, not the willy-nilly approach taken by Disney.
     
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  12. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    Looking back I remember after TFA a quote where (was it KK) someone from LFL said each director would do their own thing. They said there was no overall game plan that had to be adhered to. That was a HUGE red flag that I ignored at the time. The idea that each director would come in and simply "do his thing" is just idiotic. Then why have a story group if you are just going to let the writer/director come in "and do his thing?" Why get rid of the various levels of cannon if you are going to do this?

    Gosh KK really screwed the pooch on this. I am just glad I'm not in JJ's position. I don't see how he can take the mess that is the ST at this point and make it work, unless he is going to go LOTR and make a long film (3 hour minimum). Or go Harry Potter and split IX into IXA and IXB. Maybe he will surprise me, but I don't see at this point how it is possible.
     
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  13. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel General

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    The each director doing their own thing...was it a video or did you read it? I would like to see it if you can find it.
     
  14. Maximus

    Maximus Jedi General

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    i can't find it, but KK definitely did say it. It may have even been before TFA, but i'm not sure.

    The thing is though.. they have done the exact opposite of that since they said it:-

    Rogue One - they didn't like the ending, so Tony Gilroy was brought in for re-shoots.
    Solo - creative differences with Lord & Miller lead to them being fired and Ron Howard being brought in.
    Ep IX - creative differences were cited as the reason that Colin Trevorrow was replaced by JJ. LF apparently didn't like CT's first draft of the movie.

    i'm sorry bro, but (in my opinion) nobody is coming into these movies and 'doing his thing'. I don't care what KK may have said (and she did say it).. they are clearly micro-managing every part of these movies from beginning to end.

    how can one have a creative difference with someone you bring in to let them make a movie how they want? lol
     
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  15. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Sensitive

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    "You can make your films any way you want, so long as you make them the way we want."
     
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  16. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel General

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    So then I would guess that even though kk’s contract got renewed, I’m sure she now has to get the ship righted quickly, or her time is up. You make some great points with the creative differences and firings.

    I think the creative differences is a way to help both sides save face. They use it as an excuse to parts ways. It could be the real reason for the firings, but it could be untrue.

    KK is the boss and has made a rather large error with the fan base. I personally believe that the backlash is bigger with tlj than any fan backlash with all the other SW movies combined. I may be wrong but it’s my opinion. (Just so you know, I never had any problems with episodes 1-6 and R1 and Solo. I wasn’t happy about Han dying in vii, but understood Harrison didn’t want to do it anymore. Sure there are issues with the PT, but I liked them all. I never thought I’d ever be upset about a movie this way).

    Maybe kk just loved all of RJ’s ideas and let him run free, maybe RJ was micromanaged. I would like to think that when they choose whom they want to direct, they have a basic understanding of the direction the movie is going in before production has started. IMO, to fire people after production has started, means there’s a lot of problems, not just creative differences.

    If she is micromanaging all the directors, then she and her team needs to take continuity seriously. Most of the people I know loved the characters GL created. They could’ve made many movies with these characters with different actors/actresses in the future when Carrie, Harrison and Mark were done. Now I don’t want to see what happened in-between vi and vii.

    Hopefully Disney will start to learn from the past rather than killing the past.
     
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  17. Maximus

    Maximus Jedi General

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    look, depending on each of our individual views of the current movies.. LF are kinda damned with whatever they make.

    funny that you mentioned GL.. listen to what he says at around 0:50 during this video a couple of years ago:-

    for anyone who can't watch that for any reason, he says "you go to make a movie and all you do is get criticized, and people make decisions about what you're going to do before you do it. it's not much fun.. and you can't experiment"

    there was also something he said during a Vogue interview around the same time (sorry i cannot find the link.. so you'll have to trust me lol) when he was asked if he had been asked to help make the new trilogy movies.
    "The issue was, they looked at the stories, and they said we want to make something for the fans. All I wanted to do was tell the story of what happened." (snipped that from here.. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...crapped-his-ideas-for-episode-7-a6744091.html )

    whether you're a happy fan at the moment or not.. and honestly this isn't me fighting some corner or another, George Lucas never made movies for the fans. He told a story that he wanted to tell.

    I really do think that we all need to take a step back and appreciate that.
     
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  18. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    So which version was the one "For the fans." Lucas'? Abrams'? Or someone else's? This whole phrase "for the fans" must be banned. Fans have no idea what they want and even if they do, they change their minds constantly (that also includes me.) Just let the creators do what they want and stop being bothered with the opinion of the fandom, especially now, when so many members of it seem just to be in it in order to harass others. Side rant over.
     
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