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THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

?

Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    174 vote(s)
    55.4%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    137 vote(s)
    43.6%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    187 vote(s)
    59.6%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    165 vote(s)
    52.5%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    117 vote(s)
    37.3%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    112 vote(s)
    35.7%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    161 vote(s)
    51.3%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    201 vote(s)
    64.0%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    136 vote(s)
    43.3%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    209 vote(s)
    66.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

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    It’s funny cause it’s true.
     
  2. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

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    I don’t mind political messages in movies as well. Most sci-fi shows and movies are politically motivated. The messages need to be more subtle. Evolution takes time. Humanity has made improvements in racism, sexism and many other ism’s. It takes time, so pushing an agenda isn’t going to be accepted by everyone. Maybe one day, but not today.
     
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  3. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    JJ was considered the rehash king at one point, copying ANH to a T. Its was all over this forum and youtube at one point. Now it seems that these confused fans have become senile because now he is the so-called savior in all this.

    Ironically, Rian Johnson was this great writer and filmmaker until they watched what he did with TLJ, after what he did with Luke, they all became senile:confused:

    I really like TLJ, my likes out weigh my hates, its not a perfect film but I truly did enjoy it. My expectations are extremely low for Episode 9( I'm looking forward to all the backlash instead of the actual film;)), so If JJ does pull it off I'll be extremely happy.

    I'm not looking forward to Star Wars projects anymore because the HATE:mad: always follows. Fandom has truly destroyed Star Wars. NOT KK, JJ, or RJ... FANDOM IN OF ALL ITSELF
     
    #5323 Rogues1138, Nov 17, 2018
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  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    No doubt JJ is the King of Rehash, or the man who Reboots successful franchises. But I will give him credit in that he was able to create new characters for the ST that many fans really liked and cared about. Rey, Finn, Poe, BB8 and Kylo Ren are likeable characters that resonated with the audience in 2015, and that was not an easy task knowing that Ford, Fisher and Hamill would grace the screen once more.

    I also have no argument that TFA does copy ANH from beginning to end, but the big difference is that the mystery towards the new characters opened up a new direction in this Trilogy. Who was Rey, and why was she so powerful? What made Kylo Ren tick that he turned out this way despite his parents being War Heroes for the Rebellion? Who is Snoke, and how was he disfigured and does he have any relation to past Siths? So the point is that nobody was debating Starkiller base in 2016, people were debating Rey's parentage? Who was Snoke? How did Kylo Ren know about Rey early in the movie before he met her?

    Directing and Writing are 2 different things. Kirshner directed ESB, but he did not write it, Marquand directed ROTJ, but did not write it. Many would say the flaw of the Prequels is Lucas did too much as he wrote and directed all 3 of them. I think Rian Johnson is a very good director as I like his style, and really enjoy the way he executed TLJ in terms of the look and scope. But I question his writing choices for TLJ? I question Disney for giving him free-reign and not having some overall outline setup by the writing group for JJ, Rian and Colin (who was original scheduled to Direct Episode 9).

    That's what the Pro-TLJ fans don't get about the rest of the fans in a big picture sense. We weren't mad about not getting a backstory on Snoke, we're mad because he was killed simply because Rian Johnson just didn't want the character part of his narrative. He felt Snoke was getting in the way of Kylo Ren's story, which I could totally understand. The problem is Snoke was a HUGE part of TFA, and at that point you have to stick with the narrative for the Trilogy and see that character out. It would be no different then a new director coming in for ESB in 1978 and saying, "I didn't like that Darth Vader character, so I'm going to pretend he flew away after the explosion of the Death Star and pretend he never existed." The same goes for Rey as they built all of these clues about her in TFA, Luke/Anakin Lightsaber calling to her? Luke's Force music playing when she grabbed the Lightsaber? She hugs Leia at the end despite not knowing her? And then it felt like a cheap trick that all of it was for nothing. So I stand by that RJ is a good director as I go back to those Breaking Bad episodes he directed that were very good, Brick, Looper. But I'm not fond of the choices he made (along with KK not forcing RJ and JJ to be on the same page for the Trilogy) and just disregarding TFA because he wanted to make his own movie.

    In saying that, I have no faith that JJ will pull Episode 9 off in a way that will please fans in a big picture story sense. He will craft a fun movie, as that is his specialty and I'm sure he will try to fix some things from TLJ (that is the rumors I'm reading). But I don't think he can pull off the big picture themes, arc, story, that will tie the ST together, and the PT/OT together. Honestly, I don't think he is that type of writer as that is very hard to do. Whatever you want to say about Lucas as his dialogue maybe cheesy and directing maybe lackluster sometimes, the guy is a 'big picture' storyteller. The PT on just a story-level meshes very nicely with the OT, and had arcs for the characters and the world building that makes the 1-6 story very interesting. I have no idea how the ST ties in with 1-6, as it feels more like an Epilogue of more stories no clear point.
     
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  5. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Oddly, I didn't mind them being divorced. I didn't even mind Han's death (I knew it was coming, HF wanted out). I really wish they could have written a different story where we could have seen the big 3 (or 4 or 5 with Lando and Chewie) together on screen. Seeing Luke's academy would have been cool, but it wasn't necessary for me. I wish we could have gotten more of a continuation of a story then a reboot... then another reboot. I just feel the story felt somewhat rushed, from TFA to TLJ. They didn't have enough time to stop and consider their decisions, and the impact it would have on the universe and the fan base. When TFA came out, I thought it was a pretty solid intro to the ST, and I think had JJ had the whole of the trilogy, we would have gotten a more coherent story that would have checked more boxes. I think we would have gotten more world building in VIII, we would have gotten maybe one or two solid subversions instead of the half dozen or more from RJ, I think we would have gotten less additions to canon and he would have stayed more within the current canon instead of trying to expand it in ways not thoroughly thought out. I don't think it would have been flawless, but I think I could have stomached it better despite having some minor issues. I think JJ would have fleshed out Luke and Ben confrontation better, Rey would have had an explanation ect... though I do blame RJ, it's more because I feel he felt constrained by having a sequel to TFA and he was too stuck on his ideas he wanted in his story, so he ignore or went opposite to some ideas JJ had. I think RJ would have probably done a decent job with the whole trilogy, it at least would have been more coherent, but having too much rope following ideas that didn't quite fit with his own, I think the story suffered for it.

    To be clearer, I think some of RJ's ideas could have worked better had he had VII and built up to it instead of springing them up within a single movie. I also think JJ had ideas that would have gone over more smoothly had he had VIII to finish some of his ideas. Maybe KK even tell him he had to wrap up 90% of his mystery boxes.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2018 ---
    I disagree with the toxic fandom idea. SW fans are the envy of all other franchises. It's just an incredible problem to have. How many franchises can piss off half their fan base and still expect to top a billion on any given movie? I see it as a pro sports team with too many stars and egos to balance. It's a great problem to have. Following that analogy, SW is trading one or two of their stars for futures and yet still have enough star power to keep the franchise rolling along, while also mentoring the youth entering the franchise.

    It's funny, because I didn't mind TFA, I mostly liked it. So the idea that those who didn't like it because it was too much of a rehash from ANH doesn't work for me, an avid TLJ dissenter. TFA had its issues, but nothing that couldn't be addressed in VIII that could have made those decisions meld seamlessly. It was an intro to SW and was a fun movie, bringing new characters to the fore. It did its job, was likely not to be regarded as great, but was a decent springboard for the rejuvenated saga.

    If fans are confused, it's more due to lack of direction, I think, going back to the sports analogy, we have dozens of egos wanting to play the game how they see it should be played. The issue, as I see it, is at the top as the egos they are attempting to balance are being given either game plans they disagree with, or contradiction or lack of direction. SW has fans who love different aspects of the universe, and though it's most profitable for Disney to get them all in theaters at once, that also holds the most risk of disappointing portions of the fan base because you can't include a role for every fans preference or interest.

    I'm looking forward for what comes after IX. I hold a little hope that JJ can put it together, talking to other fans I see a glimmer how it can be done, but it's a very tight line to walk to make it good for me. At this point I think pleasing me could have backlash from some of those who love things as they are. IX to me has me curious the same way as a driver rubber necking a crash.
     
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  6. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    Um.....yep, yep, yep, and finally....yep.

    As has been stated so many times before (and here again), a MINORITY of the fandom is really responsible for these feelings that you have mentioned...primarily because of the internet, and frankly...threads just like this one.

    Now there are things that I honestly don't like about this latest trilogy and could have done without, but I don't hate these movies or any of the others because it's Star Wars, and I'll take every one of them, and every one to come.

    The fact is that people tend to fixate on elements that they didn't like and SCREAM about it over and over and over, and it then becomes an anchor for everyone else that causes the rest to have lower expectations for future movies and it's a bit of a cause-and-effect on the rest of the fandom, which I think leaves those feeling accomplished because they feel like they've inflicted some kind of damage on those people responsible for making the movies, just like it did to George Lucas after the PT.

    If you're so disillusioned about Star Wars, don't go see any more of them....problem solved.

    We, the staff and moderators, look at this particular thread as something of a black hole (no offense to the OP) that has a gravitational effect on a great number of the members of this place even if they really liked the movie, and does nothing but create hard feelings for all who walk through the door, and honestly, there are some members here that hated the movie, and are responsible for keeping the door open on this thread, AND (I personally suspect) in turn get some strange pleasure out of leaving others feeling down about Star Wars.

    My case in point, is that this thread is 267 pages long, with over 5300 responding posts, and of which, the VAST majority of responders somehow feel the need to DEFEND why they liked or even loved this last movie to a MINORITY of those that didn't...it's weird.

    In the end, I look forward to the future of Star Wars that is to come, despite the things that I didn't like, and I won't sit here and defend my position to those that seek to cloud my outlook on the future, just because they're somehow personally insulted by something that they didn't like about a movie....that they didn't make...and doesn't belong to them.

    It's something like my neighbor not liking the color of my new car who shouts their disdain for it every day over my back yard fence...I'll just build a taller fence. :)
     
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  7. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    Threads like this actually made me return to THEFORCE.NET boards. And some of those boards have celebrities interacting with fans! how refreshing and delightful is that:)? Ironically, I left the THEFORCE.NET boards because of the HATE over there, and I came here because this place at one time was a wonderful place. It felt like home... now its so toxic over here that I can't believe I'm saying this but I feel at home over there. Anywho, I'm not going to respond to the poster who said that "paraphrasing" the PT is a trilogy written by a master writer... I thought I was going too far with senile, but no one had a problem with SKB?!?! is laughable to say the least. Anywho, I'm not going to write a dissertation to show how intelligent I am or go in circles. I'm Audi 5000:cool:

    BTW the mods are doing a great job with all this... its the toxic fandom:(

    MTFBWU --- ALWAYS
     
    #5327 Rogues1138, Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  8. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think you're generalizing because alot of fans have a problem with TLJ only (hence the thread name). I really liked R1 and loved Solo, and vehemently defend them on their specific forums, and I liked TFA even with it's flaws. So I can't complain about TLJ? Or how Episode 9 could be a mess?

    I would ask anyone who likes the movie and bothers to read this thread, why you would care what the 'haters' think? I loved Solo and could care less what the 'haters' think, and have never challenged anyone in the Solo forum who didn't like the movie. I accept that some fans don't like it (in fact I totally understand why fans wouldn't like it as it's not for everyone). I enjoy Solo and sort of like that there is a cult fanbase out there.

    I do really take issue with this statement as I am very good friends with a Mod here and one of the the people who helped get this site off the ground (Dekka129) and he would also take issue with your statement. He remembers the days of TFN when the mods pretty much ran off a group of fans who didn't like the PT, and he vowed that would never happen here. He wanted this place to welcome ALL opinions (Love, Like, Mixed, Hate, etc) and wouldn't want any members on this site to be looked down at.

    For the record, Dekka129 and I disagree on TLJ and have had numerous conversations for the past year about the movie and always respected each others opinion. We laugh because we have agreed on EVERY SW movie up to this point, and TLJ is where this fanbase just split so it is interesting some fans that love it and fans that hate it.

    If you really think that the 'Hate TLJ thread' is hurting membership, then I disagree with that too. This is place is getting the SAME amount of action that it had when TFA was announced, and that movie was alot less controversial among the fans (generally well-liked). The strength of this site is that we don't have the membership of TFN, but 99% of the members here are very articulate and want to debate, argue, share opinions. TFN had ALOT of trolls there (including Mods) who just loved to stir things up and that is why that place was toxic. They also have alot of childish members who yell and scream at you if you don't agree with them. I think this is the best SW site and it is my goto place whenever I'm in the mood to talk SW. Trust me, there are alot of friends of mine on this site that love TLJ, and it hasn't affected my friendship with them one bit. In fact, I love hearing their opinions on the movie just to challenge me and maybe I could be wrong on this or that. Dekka129 has challenged me a few times on TLJ Luke, and I have to admit he made alot of good points that got me thinking of another point of view.

    I think this thread is great (not because it's negative) because it isolates fans who hate to vent, so they don't go around to everything thread and vent on them. There are dozens of threads to debate TLJ, there is nothing wrong with a vent thread of fans who hate it. I love Solo, but I would have no problem with a vent thread for Solo haters. I just wouldn't bother going in that thread, nor would I care!
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    I definitely think one of the things that has intensified my dislike for TLJ has been it's cheerleaders. I think they have done more to advance the discord than people gathering together and articulating their criticisms. Whether it was the media campaign by Rian Johnson or other sycophants through various media outlets, to people (who did not hate the movie) insisting on engaging in this thread and then complaining about the content.

    As though it were not possible to start another thread, or engage another thread, and talk about what you wanted to talk about.
     
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  10. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I see only one issue with this thread. It lacked parameters, and people came here for different reasons due to that lack.

    Some people came here for a safe space and then were offended when lovers came in and challenged them.

    Some people came in here purely to debate and in some cases, mostly early on before moderators got involved, to troll the haters, which of course caused the reverse. I wouldn't call them Trolls per se, but anyone with a beef can lower themselves to that behavior in certain instances, myself included. That said, this thread isolated most of those instances to this thread. Without it we would have had that throughout the entire forum. I find it preferable to have it mostly isolated.

    Some people saw the thread as an octagon where there's no rules and the fight was on.

    Some people came to see if others agreed with them, or why some didn't like certain parts of the movie. Some were earnest from the beginning but emotions were high and especially in the early days, it was easy to get riled up or get dragged into a debate based solely on whether you liked or disliked the movie. Often the voices of reason got lost in the bedlam.

    I don't think it was the fault of moderators, or even the OP. The fact that it's gone on as long as it has and has no signs of stopping (though it has slowed) and has mostly been civilized for the past few months shows a need for a thread of this kind, imho. If anything, I would guess that we need more threads of this kind only more defined by the OP in the opening post (I understand a decision has been made not to allow for anything like this for IX, and I think that's unfortunate because I wonder where I will sit in such a debate). Personally, I wouldn't be big on the safe place idea, I don't think it's something I would utilize very often. That said, I'm not all people, so who am I to say what others need? I think it would mostly sputter and die because it's boring to preach to the choir.

    I think TLJ was a perfect storm. It took all of us by surprise. I never fathomed I could ever truly dislike a SW movie until TLJ. I think some people had never thought others could hate what they loved. The shock of it on all sides brought out the worst in many of us. This thread created a place where fans can wallow into the muck and sort things out in a messy way (albeit with different expectations). I was never a fan of the PT, but the PT never evoked this kind of emotion from me. My nephews loved it and I was mostly happy they liked SW in some form. People compare the fan reaction of the two, and my experience says they are nothing alike. I watched TPM maybe close to 10 times or so, but after AotC I simply abstained, the dialogue ruined it for me. I've since watched CW and it's on my to do list to give the prequels a go once again. However I never hated the PT, I just had to change how I view it, not so focused on the making of Vader, but on Sideous's genius and enjoy the Kenobi parts of it. With the CW, I suspect Anakin will be more believable for me.

    TLJ is a phenomenon, but more black hole than super nova. It's terrifying and strange, and at the same time I can see how people can think it beautiful, even if I see it more as dangerous or a cautionary tale. I think this thread was instrumental in discussion in many fans, on both sides, who learned the why people felt a certain way, without dragging people who didn't want to participate into the muck with the rest of us.

    To me, the alternative of having this thread would have been me trying to figure things out through Reddit, Youtube or whatever more toxic source that was willing to get dirty. I think that would have truly turned me toxic and a toxic fan. Here, I got some reasonable challenges from some wise and knowledgeable people who were able to strip away my bias and focus objectively on the product. I still dislike TLJ, but at least I have more respect with my fellow SW fans. That in the end, more then the title, has been the theme to this thread. Understanding, even if we disagree. I no longer think only young people like this movie or whatever other assumption I had entering these forums. I understand the why, even if I don't share it.

    In that way, I think this thread has had immense value. Properly moderated, even if this thread alone becomes their focus, it served a function for the SW community. I think it was preferable than banning people posting sarcasm (or worse) all over the rest of the threads and never really having an opportunity to cut through the BS and get to core of the issues. But this is of course, just one posters opinion.

    Edit: Just to clarify one point. I think it's unfortunate that we will not get similar threads for IX, but at the same time it's possible that as a fandom, we have matured since TLJ and learned our lesson in many instances. Maybe we'll be better at articulating our opinions in the future and respecting those who disagree with us.

    My doubt comes from the fact that for me, I came to this forum by searching for a place to discuss the "hate" issues. Most haters I know (in person) have mostly just walked away from the franchise, or at least the saga films, so I had no one to delve into it. Their opinions were made and there was no need for discussion, while I still felt that need. I wanted to understand why I disliked it so, and the "isms" didn't ring true to me.

    My issue with not allowing threads of this kind in the future is that IX will surely spark a new wave of fans who need to talk things out, who haven't had this experience. I wouldn't go so far as to say we're enlightened, but we've been through this phenomena once and back through the other side. In that way, I think a hate thread would be better moderated by fans as by moderators in the future. Or maybe I'm just overly optimistic lol.
     
    #5330 Sparafucile, Nov 18, 2018
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  11. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    If this is the case, then that is total BS. As I stated, I have been with this site from day one of its inception simply because it didn't have any of this nonsense that pervaded a place like TFN. Just to give a history of TFN, there was a running thread called 'The Bashers Sanctuary' that was a safe space for fans who didn't like the PT and could talk amongst themselves without inflitrating every PT thread. It worked for years, and then all of the sudden (around ROTS), the mods closed it out of nowhere and a civil war broke out on the site, and eventually led to a mass exodus of many posters who post on this site now.

    I'm actually going to take this up with the mods (I'm interested to see what Mod Dekka129 thinks) since he was one of the main people at TFN Bashers Sanctuary and knows about squealching everyone's opinions. Just a warning to all mods who feel that limiting negativity on this site, in the end it only creates an echo chamber. People end up having less debates and then you have a bunch of people who just agree with each other, as look at our current political situation in the US. Every person I know goes to their safe space websites or watches FoxNews or MSNBC and then shouts down the other side cause they are not used to hearing a different opinion.

    This is truly sad for this site if they do limit any negative talk for Episode 9......
     
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  12. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    First of all, I know of NOBODY that actually said that this wouldn't be allowed in the future...I sure as hell didn't...so please relax, because you seem to be misunderstanding my statement.

    This has always been a place of fairness and one that will allow peoples opinions as this thread is proof-positive of that, unlike some other places, and you need not "warn" us.

    The issue that I personally have (and other moderators will agree) is NOT the fact that threads like this exist, it's the continual screeching that comes from (in most cases) the same people about the same exact thing over and over for months and months, and in many cases, those same people will goad other members into street brawls over the fact that someone disagreed with their negative opinion, because it apparently just can't be a simple situation of stating the dislike and explaining "why", as it has a tendency of regularly departing the rails at terminal velocity, and then the in-house fire department has to arrive...and has happened dozens of times in this very thread.

    Personally, I saw TLJ only ONCE in theaters because I left after that viewing with a bit of an empty feeling that I wasn't going to subject myself to again.

    I freaking hated the fact that I had to see Leia flying through space because I saw it as hokey and couldn't believe that it actually passed the editing test, and don't get me started on the sea-cow milking/drinking scene! I hate the fact that character development (in my eyes) was bypassed for making a movie about a war, with the primary characters peppered in in a few key scenes, when it should've been the other way around, but here's the difference:

    I'm not going to sit here and browbeat you or anyone else here about the fact that I hated those things....I'm not going to challenge you do disagree with me...and I'm not going to endlessly repeat my dislike for those things in a perpetual loop, because it makes no difference to anyone else, and it's my personal opinion, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you how wrong you are for disagreeing with me....which is the biggest problem with this thread in a lot of cases, because that's exactly what happens here....repeatedly. THAT'S my issue with this thread...people beat a dead horse...and nothing about the movie is going to change.

    Finally, I've been unable to avoid noticing that you've name-dropped @DEKKA129 in your previous statement more than once, and you've said that you think he'd "take issue" with my statement, and I think you perhaps need to re-read my statement because somehow you seem to have deduced that I said threads like this would never be allowed in the future, and you also made reference to other sites running off people that disagreed with the moderating staff...and that doesn't happen here...and neither was it said, nor even alluded to...and by those references you may be mistaken based on what I actually said vs what you think that you read.
     
    #5332 Trevor, Nov 18, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  13. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    @Jedi77-83 Venting is a great idea. everyone needs a sanctuary to vent. The problem is retitle the thread "TLJ Vent Sanctuary". The word HATE is too harsh. everything you said makes sense. HATE IS OBNOXIOUS. creating threads with the word hate is complete and total negativity if you are fan of Star Wars. Yes you may not like every Star Wars film and you need a place to vent but think of your fellow Star Wars fans that come here everyday and see the word HATE.

    ITS NEGATIVE AND CAN MAKE SOMEONE ANYGRY AND GO TO THE DARKSIDE. negativity and hate has no place in fandom. Create a sanctuary where you can vent with a more pleasant title. Or maybe you feel like a title like that will keep others out I don't know but I know its inherently wrong...

    I'll be bouncing in and out of here because its a free world. I'm not here to troll but I'm here to help solve the problem if I can. If not I'll return to the Jedi Council forums and leave you guys to you dark side cesspool
     
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  14. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Sorry to necro, it came up in our discussion. Figured better to get the direct post then me paraphrasing and possibly misrepresenting what was said.

    Above is the post I was referring to about not having a "hate" thread in the future. I did fail to say there would also not be a "love" thread, although that thread has suffered much less protest from my vantage point, so I believe that would be less disruptive.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 18, 2018 ---
    I think there may simply be two ways of thinking. That discussions going off the rails was due to this (or these type of) thread(s), or that they were due to the nature and surprise and shock that TLJ evoked in the fandom. I think it's more the latter. Those who make the decisions seem to think it's the former. Your house, your rules, I have no real issue with it either way as I do participate in other threads, albeit I've been less active of late mostly everywhere in the forums. However I am curious to see how things go after IX and hope we've all learned from this experience and rise above the mud fighting that happened after TLJ.

    Edit: I realize context could be important, this post took place on page 251 of this thread.
     
    #5334 Sparafucile, Nov 18, 2018
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  15. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    NOW I see where that came from, as I had not seen that @Stormagadon made that statement previously about not having those kinds of threads...which stands to be explained;

    As has been said previously; This is (and has always been) a place for fans to congregate..whether you love it or hate it, and it will ALWAYS be, but the further explanation of "allowing" threads like this in the future is that IN the future, these threads will be of a different nature, and CERTAINLY titled differently...again, no offense to the OP.

    Moving forward, these types of threads (both love AND hate) are going to be more generalized like "Best parts of IX" or "Biggest flaws of IX" as opposed to "50 things that made IX a dumpster fire!!"...that is what is meant by "allowing" these types of threads.

    These thread types being more generalized will hopefully allow a more civil exchange of opinions (one can hope) instead of nailing a "HATE" sign on the door, and I'm all about free thinking and speech, but it starts and ends with being able and willing to accept the fact that others' opinions vary and being able to move on from that.

    This particular thread has slowly quieted as the months have passed, but at one time the moderators had to constantly hover over it like a squadron of news helicopters over a shootout, and in my opinion, it was because the word "Hated" was in the title, and it had a gravitational effect on everyone to either state their hate, or defend against it, and it turned into a rock-throwing shouting match.

    There will still be places like this to go, but with different signs on the door and structured differently.
     
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  16. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I'd put "like", "great" and "friendly" on this post as well if I could lol. I didn't mean to cause a commotion with that statement, thanks for the clarification.
     
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  17. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    When I read that you and the mods discussed this thread and thought it was a 'blackhole' on the website, I assumed that there were ramifications in the future, so I apologize for assuming.

    In saying that, I still don't understand why people are offended that other people vent (or even vent endlessly) in this thread. It is a very specific thread for those who hate the movie, and it's the other side that seem to take issue with it. When I come into this thread, I fully expect to hear opinions of people who hate the movie, just as I fully assume when if I pop in the 'love TLJ thread' that I would get positive posts. If someone wants to post here about TLJ everyday on how much they hate TLJ Luke, Flying Leia, Unlikeable Holdo, Doofus Hux, etc, then why would anyone care? Wouldn't you rather them do it in this thread then going around every TLJ and ranting and raving?

    I know you brought up that the TLJ hate is an internet 'minority' and I couldn't disagree more. I know friends, family, people at work who are split on the movie and not one of them posts on SW message boards. My best friend still rants and raves about Rian Johnson and TLJ Luke to this day as I honestly don't think he'll ever get over the movie. He doesn't post on social media at all, so don't be so quick to assume what the % on the internet is what the fanbase actually feels. I remember the PT days and there was a civil war then between the fans, but that was between the fans who clearly liked the PT and clearly hated the PT, as most of those same fans fell along the same lines as the PT fans liked the SE, and the anti-PT fans hated the SE too. TLJ has split EVERY fanbase. You have OOT fans fighting about TLJ, you have PT fans fighting about TLJ, you have TFA fans fighting about TLJ, this movie literally split the fanbase like nothing else.




    OK, that makes more sense, as hopefully
    see where I misunderstood some statements that have been made through this thread. I still feel the 'Hate' 'Mixed' and 'Loved' threads have worked out well for this website, and hopefully they keep them for Episode 9. I loved Solo, but would have no problem if the same 3 threads were made for that movie. If people want to complain that Solo ruined OT Solo, I think they have a total right to, but I wouldn't bother to debate them on it as I would stay out of that thread.

    But here is the difference between the Pro-TLJ crowd and the Pro-Solo crowd, as I would totally understand someone who didn't like Solo. I don't think the movie is for everyone and sort of appeals to a certain part of the fandom. I loved it, but would never call out fans who hate it and try to pyschoanalyze why their expectations weren't made, etc. That is essentially what alot of TLJ fans have done to many of us in the past year, almost questioning why we would hate the movie? If you told me in November 2017 that Luke was going to be portrayed the way he was in TLJ, I would have guaranteed a civil war would erupt between the fans. When you drastically change an iconic character from 30 years ago, Disney had to know that some fans would love it and some fans would hate it?
     
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  18. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    Basically, if you HATE TLJ, stay out of the "love" TLJ thread. If you LOVE TLJ, stay out of the "hate" TLJ thread. Basically, it sound and feels like unhealthy segregation of fandom. I'm not here to troll, but when somethings feels inherently wrong, I hope I can vent or state my opinion in a healthy manner.
     
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  19. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    If there were a thread to talk about the OOT movies, would you go in that thread and talk about how much you love the SE? There is segregation all over this site, but there are also dozens of threads to talk about specific things in TLJ: Luke thread, Rey thread, Kylo Ren thread, Snoke thread, etc.

    You wouldn’t go in a Rey thread and talk about how much you hate TLJ Luke? That’s why I don’t get what’s so wrong about having 3 macro threads about TLJ in overall feelings of the movie. Now if they were the ONLY 3 TLJ threads on the site, then I would agree that we are limiting debate. But there are dozens of threads to talk about this and that so nobody is being segregated.

    For example, I love the Rey/Kylo Force Skype parts at the beginning of the movie as they were well done. I’ve posted in other threads regarding that topic, so I’ve never felt segregated in that respect. My theory is the more threads, the more debate happens. TFN limited threads and boxed many fans into taking a side. There is a lot to talk about with these movies (hence why the franchise is still relevant), so the more threads the merrier, IMO.
     
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  20. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I was curious why so many HATED TLJ, so my curiosity prompted me to come here. I had agreed with some of the issues and problems associated with TLJ but I don't HATE the film and thats my opinion, of course. I stayed away from this thread as much as I could but my curiosity kept me coming back. Since this thread obviously has allot of traffic. Seeing the title over and over again started to bother me and I voiced my opinion and coupled with all other toxic nonsense made this thread a target. I feel this thread promoted or caused some of the toxicity that is going on.

    We all need a place to vent. The title is awful. This thread should be shutdown and started once again with a more pleasant title or disclaimer...
     
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