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THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

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Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    192 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    148 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    200 vote(s)
    59.5%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    181 vote(s)
    53.9%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    128 vote(s)
    38.1%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    123 vote(s)
    36.6%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    176 vote(s)
    52.4%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    219 vote(s)
    65.2%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    147 vote(s)
    43.8%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    225 vote(s)
    67.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    Just noticed on the front page a story about Hasbro launching a new Empire Strikes Back line of toys. Hmmm... I thought everything was fine? Every one loves The Last Jedi. So why not release a line of Last Jedi toys?

    The more I think about some of the dialogue in this film, the more I really think Johnson needed to do what George did with IV. R.E.W.R.I.T.E. Again and again and again and again. DJ Is worse than freakin Jar Jar in this film. What a waste of a talented actor (just one of many who were wasted).

    Another thing that bugs me is the idea that Rey is now the Last Jedi but the Jedi are reborn. How???? Every time Rey does something, or not every time, but often, it is done out of emotion and anger. She attacks Finn in anger in TFA. She attacks Kylo with anger. She attacks Luke with a lightsaber in anger for no other reason than to force him to give her answers. Anger anger anger. Does she learn anything?

    I could go on with the inconsistencies in this film but yeah.... I won't. And yeah, I know, "No Star Wars film is perfect." Or "The Original Trilogy has problems."
     
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  2. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    She is not a Jedi yet so she is going to obviously going to have some struggles and mistakes on her road to mastery. Luke and Anakin surely did. So this hardly qualifies as "inconsistencies"
     
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  3. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    As a SW collector, the only line that sold well was the TFA merchandise, as TLJ merchandise fell 49% last year. I was in Kohls this weekend, and they have all of the TLJ 3.75 Carded figures marked down to $1.99 in their bargain bin. Just to give context of the 3.75 toy line, TFA had 3 waves of releases (they like to release Wave 2 and 3 after the movie) in fear of spoilers. For example, TFA Unmasked Kylo Ren was released in Wave 2 because all of the trailers only showed him masked. TLJ nixed Wave 2 and 3 in February 2017 because of low sales, so they practically admitted that nothing was selling.

    Right now the Vintage Lines are the only things that sell well, and do keep their value. I collect The Vintage Collection Carded Figures (They are the same looking carded figures that were released from 77-83) and they still have new waves coming out in 2019. The only TLJ VIntage Collection so far have been Luke, and a strange choice in Snoke. Oddly, enough there have been more Vintage Collection releases from R1 and Solo than TLJ. They are also releasing in May 2019, 6 Figures from the 1977 Original Kenner Release Carded figures called the Retro-Line.

    That is why the narrative 'kill the past' aint happening with this franchise as long as they want to keep making money. The only things that still make money are from the OT era.
     
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  4. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    I wouldn't want to compare Rey and her mistakes to those Anakin made. His mistakes took him to the exact places that seem to attract Rey. As for Luke, he didn't usually lash out with anger the way Rey does. The one time he really did was in Return of the Jedi. Lucky for him he caught himself in time and realized he was going down the wrong road. We shall see if Rey is able to come to the same realization. So far she seems to have no consequences for her actions. As @Darth_Nobunaga has often noted, she fails in one scene and then in the very next scene she is flying around whopping it up as if nothing had happened.
     
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  5. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    I do not really see any of Rey's actions as anything close to a dark sider. She is very much in the light side camp. I do not really think she needs to seek atonement for wacking Finn and Luke with a stick and fighting a dark side user after he just murdered her father figure. The only time I feel she really is tempted by the dark side is the cave. She wants so desperately to know the truth she goes to a place of the dark side to find answers (a lot like Anakin) She expresses remorse of this decision to Kylo by the fire. Also being gleeful after saving your friends from certain doom is pretty expected. What do you want her crying as she shoots tie fighters out of the sky?
     
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  6. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
    Sad defeated Luke. Next scene, Luke shouting for joy after shooting a tie fighter.
     
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  7. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    If there’s something weird in that scene... that’s Leia. But they say it’s her attitude.
    That said I find hard to compare Luke of IV with /Rey of VIII.
    Even more so, because I don’t think that was the purpose of episode VIII.

    In fact... in that scene from ANH Luke had known Obi Wan for less than 24 hours. He’s sad and that’s fine. Understandable.
    But you have to compare that to Leia and Rey hug in 7 after Han’s death (a man she knew form less than 24 hours) and that was still emotional.
    In addition .... the next scene of Luke in ep. IV implies a short time laps during which Luke can finally
    make his dream come true. His goal in life was to become a pilot. To joying the Academy etc...
    Remember that scene under the twin suns of Tatooine?
    His, is a story arc. And his reaction given the circumstances understandable. Given like I said
    that he spent with Obi Wan less than 24 hours and that few hours later he’s finally given of the chance he’s been waiting all his life.

    With Rey in TLJ, we are supposed/asked to consider that moment on Snoke’s ship as the hardest moment in her life...
    The discovery or acceptance of an hard truth that was meant to be compared.... to Luke discovering that Vader is his father.
    That was the purpose of that scene.
    We are supposed/asked to take it seriusly. To take that moment as a life defining moment.
    As the bottom line of her entire life.
    And that’s why - imo - her next scene on the Falcon doesn’t fit/ help at all to reach that goal.
    Not to mention that the supposed heroine of said movie (I personally believe that during TLJ Kylo usurped not only
    Snoke’s role in the galaxy, but that of the true protagonist of the ST as well) is deprived of another and defining character moment.
    We don’t see and we don’t know why she doesn’t kill Kylo when she wakes up.
    It’s not that I need to see it to understand that she didn’t do that.
    It’s that whatever her reasoning was, that was another defining choice for her character’s arc.
    It’s not that I care for a reason in particularly.
    It’s that I don’t know what the supposed or former heroine thinks.
    Why she did what she had done. I only know that she enjoys shooting.
     
    #5787 lealt, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
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  8. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    Nothing weird at all. This was a reply to someone above who thought it was impossible to change emotional states between scenes.

    It was. Her whole identity was based on her finding her parents or them returning. So not only hearing that they are never coming back but they sold her off for something like desert hooch would obviously be a pretty devastating thing for her to learn.

    Her life up to that point. Yes. Now she can take the revelation and forge a new destiny for herself (Like Luke did)

    She was saving her friends. She is not going to cry and sulk while doing this. We see from the gif I posted above, Luke certainly did not.

    So you consider the guy who gave order for no prisoners to be taken at the end of the movie and the guy who did not stop his soldiers from firing on unarmed transports, and the guy who tried to cut his defenseless uncle in half the protagonist of this story? That is certainly your prerogative. I there is a much stronger case for him being the deuteragonist.

    She is a Jedi lol. They tend to not stab unconscious people.


    Really that is all you get from Rey? Not her loneliness, her low self worth, her longing for a family, her kindness, her resourcefulness. All you know about Rey is she likes to shoot stuff?
     
    #5788 Mortis, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
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  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I dumped my E8 figures (at a pretty big loss) and will be doing the same for E7 and Rogue One. The quality is very poor and I am fed up with Disney's ever-shrinking packaging for the main 3 3/4 line. I am going to focus exclusively on Vintage Collection as far as figures go. Much higher quality and they certainly display way better. I don't mind paying a little extra for superior quality.
     
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  10. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    The VC is a great line as I started collecting them 2 years ago. I like to buy them on eBay, and if you’re patient, you can get good deals on them.

    My Walmart and Target are pretty good with stocking the latest VC lines as they usually run around $12.00.
     
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  11. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Interesting twitter thread for you guys to read. I believe it is really well thought out.
     
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  12. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    Because as we all know, all that pesky “nerd stuff” like sprawling lore, in-universe rules, emphasis on exhaustive training and wide gaps between masters and apprentices, adherence to galactic history, characters with intricate back-stories, and other things this tweeter believes stretched beyond the pulpy intent of the OT (and that fans apparently need to “grow up past”) ONLY ever existed in the EU and other purist ornaments of the pre-Disney era.

    …except for the fact that Star Wars: Rebels exists, and includes ^most, if not all, of those things. And wouldn’t you know it, that show was not only approved and produced under the Disney label, but it was also made for…g-gosh, children who watch DisneyXD? The target demographic for Star Wars, and not the “nitpicky adults and adolescents”?

    It’s almost like the things that this Tweeter believes “violate and constrict Star Wars” exist in the new canon as well, and that this is yet another backwards, overreaching and desperate attempt to make The Last Jedi look good.

    But that would be crazy, right?
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I know what you said. But I said something else. That in that Luke-Leia scene, what is far more interesting and - apparently - fitting to your point is her reaction. She had just lost her entire planet, her parentes, etc... (not a guy she knew from less than 24 hours) yet she's the one consoling Luke. However, that scene is not "weird" (I agree with that, as I later tried to explain) just because it's a defining character moment for Leia. That scene is consistent with what we've seen before and afterward, about her. With the idea of Leia, as a woman whose most defining trait is her moral streght, her resilience. And that's why that scene from Leia's pov, it's not weird but consistent with her characterization. It's a piece of the puzzle that tell us who she is.

    That was the purpose of whoever wrote TLJ. Agree with that. So much so, that's what I've said. And iIn all truth I said more than that. That we are supposed to compare Rey in TLJ with Luke in ESB. But we are not debating the purpose of her story arc (because we agree on that) but its execution. If what we see on screen is the best, a good or compelling way to represent that kind of arc.
    And I cannot take that scene seriusly, because in the very same movie, 2' minutes later she doesn't.
    Because we are told, that is not a problem.
    Because that "devasting" truth is solved with a smile.
    So it's not a crisis. It's not somethig that leaves her with doubts (that was Luke's case).
    If it's not a problem for her, not anymore, why shoud I think it is?
    And what are the problems left for her to overcome?
    Her "personal" problems. The inner demons she still has to face, as every hero/heroine shoud do in the last chapter of his/her story?
    She has none. Thus she has not story, in what was supposed to be, her story.


    Kylo/Ben has them. He still has issues to solve. Not her.
    He has a backstory - and one tied with this Saga, that impacts this saga far more than that of Rey.
    Not only because he is a Skywalker, but because the revelation of what really happened between him and Luke is far more tied
    to this saga than whatever Rey's parents did to her. It's far more emotional, it has direct consequences in what we see on screen and it will
    in the next and finale chapter.

    It may be. Or maybe not. Maybe she did that because she's in love. Or because she was scared or in a hurry.
    You don't know. None of us does it.
    What is sure, it's that whaterver the case is, it should have been on screen not because we cannot think of a reason, but because that moment
    should have been one of the moment that defines her as a character. Something we should be able to compare to:

    "I cannot kill my own father" or "I am a Jedi like my father before me" (Luke in ROTJ)
    "I am not Jedi" (Ashoka in Rebels)
    Or to something else, but equally powerful.

    Because after having discovered what we are supposed take as the most devasting truth she could have possibly learned, that is what she does.
     
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  14. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Everything with ANH (or Star Wars) cannot be viewed in the same context as the other Saga movies, simply because it was a standalone movie. Once Lucas established that there were Sequels/Prequels, than there was a narrative (and character building, world building, etc), so the point of them was to flesh out all of that in the universe.

    SW 77 was a movie written with a beginning, middle and ending, and the movie simply moves at a quick pace for that reason (hence the way it is edited). Lucas even admitted if he knew there were going to be sequels, than he would have waited til the 3rd movie to blow up the Death Star. Which means this scene would be radically different because THAT would have been the end of the movie, leading into Part 2 (just as TFA and TPM did).

    So you can say it seems odd that Luke was cracking jokes 5 minutes after he was consoled by Leia, but that was the way the movie cut simply because it was a standalone/serial style that Lucas/Spielberg grew up with. Lucas was not going for heavy character development or big dramatic scenes in ANH compared to the other Saga movies simply because that's not the movies goal. Everything in that movie moves to the next scene, compared to the other Saga movies where there is much more exposition/character development because now there is an established narrative.
     
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  15. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Rebel Official

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    Plus, the way it is cut means we stay with Luke and go with him on that journey from one emotion to the next.
    The problem with the Rey situation is not that she can be in a bad place and then in a good place from one scene to the next, per se - the problem is that the audience are not guided through that transition. We just cut away from a key character at a key moment, and the transition happens offscreen, and it jars a little for that reason.

    See, it would be a fair comparison if we had cut straight from Leia consoling Luke to another scene onboard the Death Star: Tarkin and Vader conversing about the death of Kenobi and the importance of locating the Rebel base, for example, culminating with the launch of a squadron TIE Fighters, all seen from the Empire's POV - and then we just cut straight to the Falcon swooping down and taking out one of the TIEs with Luke cheering and celebrating... that would have felt a little odd for the same reasons.

    I've noticed a lot of TLJ discussion seems to follow a similar pattern when it comes to criticism:
    "I really didn't like Dude, Where's My Car?"
    "But you liked The French Connection, and that had a car in it too... therefore a film you like is exactly the same as a film you don't like - Either accept that you like rubbish films, or admit that Dude, Where's My Car? is actually a masterpiece..."
    (epic fail)
     
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  16. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Even Han sets up the scene when Leia is consoling Luke, "Come on buddy, we're not out of this yet!" Meaning, there is no crying in outer space, and we got a job to do or we'll be dead.
     
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  17. Jawajedi12

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    I do not like the sequels
    I tried to like those movies but I can not simply for me they are inferior to the Prequels and OT
     
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  18. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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  19. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Leaked footage of Daisy Ridley reading The Last Jedi script
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2019 ---
    TFA is better than Episode II and III for me, but the overall charm/feel of the trilogy blows this one out of the water.. so far. Optimistic for Episode IX!
     
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