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THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

?

Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    192 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    148 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    200 vote(s)
    59.5%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    181 vote(s)
    53.9%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    128 vote(s)
    38.1%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    123 vote(s)
    36.6%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    176 vote(s)
    52.4%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    219 vote(s)
    65.2%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    147 vote(s)
    43.8%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    225 vote(s)
    67.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    (2:42)

    Kennedy also said in one of those other early videos about respecting the rules of Star Wars.

    Thrown over her shoulder like a lightsaber.

    ----------------------------------------------

    From a previous Rian Johnson film fan:


    (Part 4 of 4)
     
    #1581 MagnarTheGreat, Jan 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  2. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    wow, i'm surprised at you! i wouldn't have pinned you for a TLJ critic like this.

    that second video is an opinion piece; the part about cutting the scene during the Han's death conversation is purely subjective.
     
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  3. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Clone

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    Well, to lighten things up, I'll just leav this here...
     
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  4. Governor Calrissian

    Governor Calrissian Rebel Trooper

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    Part II:

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Legend Knight

    Legend Knight Force Sensitive

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    Well never get over how this epic scene was played for a gag in Last Jedi. Luke's nuanced looks make no sense in context of how it will ultimately play out two second later. I still cannot wrap my head around some of the choices this movie made.
     
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  6. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Yes, yes, like how he wants the Jedi 2 end, throws Excaliber over the cliff yet Luke still haves Jedi texts, robes, trinkets & a lightsaber crystal on him.
     
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  7. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    He also goes to the place of the first Jedi Temple...to die and only not to be found.

    Everyone logically thought there was something more profound about Luke going to that location and R2-D2 not going with him but being associated with a piece of the map to said location. But the writers and people behind the movie were like, nah, **** it, let's do something so much lamer and with less continuity of character for Luke and with the last movie.
     
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  8. Governor Calrissian

    Governor Calrissian Rebel Trooper

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    I agree that it runs counter to Luke's core character. And that if his character has substantially changed in the intervening years, it has to be earned. That said, I was OK with him contemplating killing Ben, just for a second, but not the way it was done. Especially invading dreams - people's dreams and inner thoughts are their own; and no one would want to be convicted on the basis of their dreams and inner thoughts. After all, we all know the demons who live inside us and who we fight every day. You would think Luke (actually anyone decent and sensible and intelligent) would judge actions not thoughts. So, like I said, while willing to give that explanation the benefit of the doubt, I do not buy the context especially because it was not earned in any way at all. It's simply wrong.

    As to the LS, I don't agree with you here; and, while I've thought a bit about it, I don't think Yoda would have tossed it either.

    Everything we've learned so far is that LS are a big deal and especially so to Jedi. Think on Obi-Wan's remonstration to Anakin in AOTC, "your lightsabre is your life" and Vader acknowledging Luke's power in ROTJ, "I see you have constructed a new lightsabre, your skills are now complete." Remember too, Yoda's description of what it is to be a Jedi: it is "to have the deepest commitment" and "the most serious mind". I've always loved that description because it points out not the talent or power that a person needs to be a true Jedi, but the characteristics. You have to be committed and serious (because its hard and meaningful). Given that, and the meaning of lightsabres to Jedi, I doubt Master Yoda would be so flippant as to toss one over his shoulder.

    I mean, the Yoda from TLJ might have, but that was not Yoda. It was some bizarro version of fake Yoda who tested Luke in ESB. One more thing RJ got wrong.

    I didn't buy the toss because it was out of character and especially because he would not have seen that lightsabre for over 30 years. His own lightsabre and his father's before him that called him to action from Tattooine. It's one more reason why I think that moment was all about RJ (and shows him up in all his smug unfounded self-conceit). As that gesture is akin to a middle finger at Luke's beginning in ANH and also the climax of TFA - not to mention events in that movie such as the LS calling to Rey and her vision when touching it - and the two year wait for what next.

    And that does, once again, show the lack of an overall story in this ST.
     
    #1588 Governor Calrissian, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  9. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I took at as him going there before he made his mind up that the Jedi should end. He came to the realisation when he was there and he learned more about the Force from the ancient ways of the Jedi.
     
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  10. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    You make some very good points, but again, when Luke meets Yoda on Dagobah, he is anything but serious with Luke. And ultimately this is the same Yoda that just destroyed the Force Tree and the Jedi Text... I don't think any material item or possession is coveted by Yoda (which would dovetail nicely with the idea of lack of attachment and thereby avoiding the fear of loss).

    Do I like the moment? No. And I actually agree with a lot of your reasoning here, but in each position I take I also try to see if there is any justification for it in previous Episodes, and ESB for me represents that precedence. These positions are not necessarily mutually exclusive, it can be everything you just communicated (and probably was so) and still have a thread of precedence (which I believe it does). To me it would make FAR more sense for him to just give the LS back and having that be symbolic of who he is when we meet him.
     
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  11. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Yoda destroyed the tree because he knew the texts weren't inside. He knew Rey took them and if Luke knew that he would never move on. Yoda wanted Luke to move on from his obsession with the old Jedi. He wanted Luke to see that it wasn't about maintaining the old Jedi order. It's about learning from and teaching your failures. Luke didn't do that. He taught his strengths and never heeded Yoda's words. Pass on what you have learned, from success and failure. Not, pass on the old Jedi doctrines. "We are what they grow beyond, that is the burden or all masters". The Jedi needed to change and grow. The new Jedi will.

    As for Yoda's personality, he's always been a jokster. Even in the PT to some extent.
     
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  12. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Agree some and disagree some. Don't think Luke was obsessed with the old jedi, he was obsessed with his mistake. He didn't go to Ach To to learn anything (as I would have wished), he went there to disappear and die. Yoda wanted Luke to see that being a master/teacher wasn't just about achievement it was also about failures (maybe even mostly about failures). Yoda didn't know the texts weren't in the tree, destroying the tree was meant to be symbolic of what he was trying to teach Luke that being a master wasn't just about achievement, enlightenment, and wisdom (which is what those texts represented to Luke). Unlike Kylo, Yoda is not saying destroy the past, Yoda is saying to tell all the past, failure and success.
     
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  13. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Luke tried to teach the way the old Jedi did. He took the same lifestyle as Obi-Wan. It's not clear if the reason he left was to die or to find answers. When he learned of the failures of the Jedi, he decided he needed to end along with the Jedi Order. That could be when he sunk his ship and disconnected himself. It doesn't make much sense to become disenchanted with the Jedi Order right after he lost Ben. Then why in the world would he have kept teaching the students if he wasn't fully on board?

    I also think Yoda's line of "time it is.......for you to look past a pile of old books". He's saying, no it's not time for the Jedi to end, it's time for the Jedi to grow and change. Stop looking at the books for answers when the answers are right in front of your face.

    Rian Johnson stated in his interview with Empire Magazine. It was time for Religion to die. Not the Light. It's like when a Religion is no longer serving the God it was meant to serve but the men that wanted power. That's the analogy. Luke became jaded with the religion but didn't have the courage to end himself or the ancient texts.
     
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  14. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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    It's very likely he initially went there for a reason. To learn, to be inspired, to re-ignite his own faith... any or all of those. At some point though, he just convinced himself that the Jedi way was not going to work. He threw in the towel, and thought he could no longer do anything to help the conflict the galaxy was facing. His "I came here to die" statement, at least to me, came off as more jaded and resigned to the Jedi fate than literal truth.
     
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  15. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Still bothers me we weren't given a reason for WHY this place was such a secret. Beyond being convenient for the plot that is.
     
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  17. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    An invasion of Porgs onto every ecosystem in the galaxy that would result in something akin to Australia's rabbit problem. :p Speaking completely honestly though, I don't think it was hidden but rather forgotten, similarly to the Tutankhamun's tomb.
     
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    In the novel of TFA they provide a reason: The temples were used as sanctuaries for the Jedi after Order 66. And clearly the Empire once had a record of this place but the route/part of the map was deleted from their version of the map.

    I believe that this could potentially link into Kenobi’s standalone film. But for TFA and TLJ, exposition about why this place was lost and a great place for Luke to go, was unnecessary. It’s only intriguing for geeks like you and I.

    And why Luke went there - well, we don’t know at what point he decided the Jedi needed to end. I bet he went there looking for answers, wisdom for what he should do next and instead he came to the view that the Jedi should end.
     
  19. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Yeah, I should have known. I should have known that no one wants to question the whole Rey - Kylo mess. Typical.
     
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  20. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Why would anyone question it if Rey knows within the film knows that there's no future for them and literally shuts the door in front of him? Also, here's a quote from the director himself on the Rey-Kylo moment after the fight in the throne room (more of his thoughts can be found here.)

     
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