Thread for those who loved the movie

Again, by saying she was "playing psychiatrist" you mean that she tries to help him. She doesn't. Her actual reason for being there is that she wants somebody to replace the parents, that abandoned her. That is why she stoms out after becoming disappointed with Luke and goes to Ben instead of going straight back to the Resistance or keep trying to bring Luke with her. All of that did indirectly help Luke, but that's not the point.

Point me to that article, because I have no idea what you are talking about. The lightsaber-wielding Finn thing was to hide that Rey was the actual force-sensitive protagonist before TFA came out. At no point it stated that Finn could use the Force.
As for speculation, here's the thing. Speculation is not the problem, it's just a fun little activity for your mind, nothing more. The problem is that some people get too emotionally invested into something, that couldn't possibly deliver. Like Rey being a Skywalker, a Kenobi or whatever. At no point did TFA suggest that Rey's parents are somebody we know, or even important. Only that they are important to her. And JJ even said that Rey's parents aren't in the movie (while Luke was). As for what fans want. Well, fans want different, often mutually exclusive things.

 

Yes I agree, it depends on the charity of the watcher outside of the disbelief they have already suspended and (to me) is an indication of bad writing. With each story point you create you simultaneously create issues and constraints that you have to address with sincerity as you develop your story. If Rian had told a completely different story, this would still apply.

It was also easy enough to see that Rey had the ability to use the Force with no apparent training - there still needed to be an explanation as to why in the movie. And (by the way I loved Dark Crystal) I don't think you can compare these movies to make the point you're attempting to make. We learn about Dreamfasting as a phenomena in the movie; there aren't any hardened boundaries because it's happening IN the movie. We, however, know about the Force, we have had several movies and series to establish what it is and does. And merely putting Rey and Kylo in each other's presence does not eliminate the human factor or human nature.

To me it would be like arguing, once Luke found out Vader was his father he should have hugged him, but that would go against human nature given what happens just before. Magic doesn't undo human nature, emotion, or behavior, at least not in this galaxy

I don't think changes in human nature are precipitated by the use of the Force, I think they amplify the existing nature.

Easily. Compare it to him trying to convince himself to kill his parents (Han in TFA and Leia in TLJ). Remember how he vacillated on killing Han? With Leia, he shanks the punt completely, he can't do it. How calm did he look killing Snoke? How about the Praetorian Guard? Rey was the one screaming during the fight, not Kylo. Kylo looks is no more stressed or amped than an accountant trying to figure out where to file his status report; killing the guard is merely an activity on the to do list. He was methodical, something he was not at the end of TFA and beginning of TLJ. There is no wavering in his commitment to his direction, at all.

 

This reading is new to me.
I'll take a closer look next viewing and see how it fits.
I do know I wouldn't want a nurse to pester me all day then king-hit me when I ask them to leave!

You both have a point.
This dynamic of Rey, Ben, and Luke taking turns at playing teacher, friend, and nemesis to each other is something I've loved about this opera.
Sounds like family to me!

This reminds me of an article I read this week about how empathy often stems from curiosity.

The context for the short excerpt below is a medical student having to treat a loathsome man after he first abused the senior doctor...

Maybe it was a similar experience during the Force Bond for Rey.
Interestingly her curiosity was kindled much earlier too - the moment Kylo removed his helmet in TFA.

The next time I encounter a facile argument against TLJ I will try to emember the professor's advice.
Even if the argument is spurious or articulated poorly the anger and disrespect behind them are likely genuine.

Curiosity to Empathy. Like Einstein said: the important thing is to never stop questioning.

Edit:link

 

There is no expansion issue regardless of alignment. There have been new uses of the force in about every film. "The Rules" are a figment, maybe even a misunderstanding of the nature of the force.

The limits are of the mind, imagination, and I guess the limits of the physical body and/or wisdom of the luminous.

Vader neither lied nor stuttered when he said the power to destroy a planet is INSIGNIFICANT next to the power of the force.

 

I don't have much if any empathy for Kylo Ren and strongly prefer he go deep into the dark side but I do like the character quite a lot so that may make up for being in his shoes or any sympathy.

I can't emphasize with wilfully pursuing the dark side against his every instinct but I sure find it interesting way to make a villain operate. Usually you get either bad seed, the fallen hero, or the mad man.

I love The Last Jedi though.

I do feel pretty strongly he has gone too far to not go a lot further before he can stop the kicking and screaming against the light.
A quick death or some kind of whiplash redemption deal are both weak tea cop outs to me.

We need to be closer to the beginning than the end or it really threatens to turn the whole thing a microwave "meal" out of a vending machine. Either way is cheap. Let's stoke uo this fire and get back to his story in 5 or 10 years is the way to go.

 

Hey everyone, great additions to the thread, haven't read it for awhile and I just got caught up....wanted to talk about my favorite scene(s) in the movie - Luke's appearance at Crait, first with Leia, the wink and nod to 3PO and of course the most epic appearance of a Master Jedi yet experienced in SW.

What are everyone's thoughts on the scene with Leia? Did she know he was a force projection? Love her line right before he appears "...hope is lost....the spark is out".

 

She knew. The last look when she got the dice was the clue she knew.

That scene with Leia packs such a punch.

 

Oh yeah.. She knew, and she probably knew what it meant for his fate. (Doesn't he say 'nobody is truly gone' at this point? That's a clue). She sensed Han's death from across the stars in FA, so I'm sure she can tell if her own brother is really there or not.

He also looks younger and a little less grey in the beard, although that's probably more like how he looked when she last saw him.

If she didn't before that moment then she would have definitely known by then. The dice are part of the projection, so will have had no physical presence or weight in her hands.

Regarding that wink to C3PO. He's a droid, so his senses are not fooled in the same way. He knows Luke isn't really there. Hence the wink, like he's sharing a secret 3PO. But keep quiet!.

 

sure it is.
in fact, that's exactly how the Force works.
it does whatever the plot needs it to do.

whose human nature? yours? not mine. [shrug].

i'm not sure i get your point here. he was calm killing Snoke and the guards, but he was positively unhinged dealing with Luke.
i came across this funny cartoon. it sums it up for me:

 

And always has.
That's what makes the Han/Finn thing so funny.
The force COULD do that...if they knew how to use it that way lol.
They're basically an audience POV for that joke. It's someone being too lazy to get the remote from the other side of the couch and hoping that the force is strong with them today.

 

So got into a twitter discussion today and the "Chase" came up. I have always thought it was a lame complaint and the following came to me. I never have ever thought that the movie centered on a "chase". It came to me today what it was. The movie centered on a tried and true tactic of movies/stories of medieval and fantasy films have used. The movie centered around a "siege". In this case a moving siege, but the movement didnt matter.

You have The Resistance hunkered down in the castle and the First Order having the castle under siege. The First Order is just waiting for the food (fuel) supply to run out and then simply overtake the castle. At the same time The Resistance is looking for a way to sneak out. Holdo comes up with a plan to sneak out through a secret passage and Poe comes up with a plan to be able to blow through the siege and run away.

 

Thought this was interesting that I never noticed before.

 

Saw that earlier as well.
Brilliant film making.

 

But, of course you got people in there claiming "lazy choreography."

 

My favorite was the "I wouldn't call it foreshadowing" group.

It blows my mind how people are so confident in just trying to redefine a word because they want to spin something.

 

It reminds me of when the idea that Lucas had been using a 'ring composition' story structure to compose the saga. I saw comments dismissing it on the basis that they thought Lucas was too stupid to do something like because, you know, the dialogue was bad and whatnot wasn't it.

 

Lucas is a brilliant story creator and world builder.
Writer of dialogue? Different story lol.

 

It's very cool if that's intentional, but hm... I don't know, I think there's a chance it's coincidence. I really hope it isn't that "lazy choreography" i.e. stunt guys repurposing previously rehearsed moves. Well, even if, the similarity is noticeable only when you put the shots next to each other like this.

 

Meh... if you edit it the way as this person has, it looks a lot better than when you watch both scenes in context un-cut. In context, in my opinion, it's a reach to call this foreshadowing. I wouldn't call it lazy choreography, there are certain moves you are just going to see in a sword fight. Re-purposing moves isn't a new thing.

I think there's a case to be made that Finn's fight with Phasma in Hangar Bay is symbolic of the Resistance vs the First Order, with Finn charging in (like Poe) initially scoring one early success (like the destruction of the Dreadnought) and then being on the defensive for the rest of the fight (like the chase), being over-matched and all but doomed (like the battle of Crait), Rose stepping in to give Finn a chance to recover (Luke stepping in to give the Resistance a chance to recover) and Finn surviving the fight to escape (the Resistance surviving the battle of Crait to escape). Of course this could be a reach too depending on how generous or stingy you are with metaphor and symbolism.

 

Well, there's enough foreshadowing i.e. Kylo telling Rey that the Force projection will kill her. Luke telling Rey that he won't take on the entire First Order with a laser sword, yet he does. That I don't think this is a coincidence. Plus, nothing you see on screen is ever by accident at least in SW movies. I really doubt the Stunt Coordinator said to Daisey, "okay just do random moves here, and call it a day."