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Thread for those who loved the movie

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by The Last Deadeye, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    I'd order some of those hotdogs!

    Technically you're right...we can aim for both but, like most design, things need to be balanced and compromises made that serve the most important goals.
    In this case the brief is for a swashbuckling space-opera so if something has to take a back seat to drama (and trust me - sacrifices will always have to be made on set and on edit) it's bound to be something like fight realism.

    I guess my point is that a SW light saber duel can't be dramatic and PERFECTLY logically coherent IN EVERY ASPECT.
    The myriad of limitations in film-making process and logistics make error and sacrifices inevitable - even with big budgets and large resources.

    FWIW I've spent much more time in post-production than on sets but given the amount of people I've seen collaborating on large projects (often under time pressure, long hours, and with unforeseen constraints) I'm always AMAZED that there aren't more obvious errors or significant lapses in quality within most final products!!
     
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  2. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    [​IMG]

    So I'm not sure if what my motivation is for my argument has any bearing on the validity of my argument. Aren't we all litigating an old issue? Isn't it 2 years old for all of us? Did you ask DailyP "what's the point?" when he revived this topic of conversation on May 12, 2019 when he said "I saw this posted the other day and it's a fitting response for people who nitpick fight choreography in The Last Jedi."? These are genuine questions.

    I am curious, what is valid criticism (not nitpciking) against the throne room battle? It doesn't have to be something you agree with, just an argument that you'd say isn't nitpicking.

    Interesting In regard to your proposition of "balance" I don't necessarily disagree. But I'd argue there are a number of aspects to cinematic realism, it's not a singular monolithic thing. I think it's a logical fallacy to suggest that once I have suspended my disbelief, that all unrealistic acts are now covered (which we know is not the case). Energy weapons don't really exist, but in the GFFA they do. So I suspend my disbelief. The Force is not real, but in the GFFA it is. So I suspend my disbelief. In most real life situations, 2 people fighting against 8 don't usually prevail, but in GFFA it's possible. So I suspend my disbelief. A weapon disappearing in the middle of a fight because of plot necessities? That's pretty bad, and I don't think the onus is on me to simply overlook it or I'm nitpicking.

    It's not that we aren't extending the requisite latitude to the film and the film makers, they just didn't do their due diligence (whether it's the actual choreography, last second changes, the editing or some combination). They didn't seem concerned about how sloppy or incoherent some of the sequences are during the fight because they think you won't notice it if it moves fast and is flashy. And on first view, you probably won't see all of them. But there are a LOT of them.

    There is no perfect choreography (especially with one against many... there's always going to be the guys who look like they're standing around waiting for their turn). We can find flaws in any movie or show (I know this). But if we do, and it diminishes our enjoyment, I think we can legitimately critique it. Especially if we know it can be done better. One of my favorite LS fights was never in an Episodic movie. But I enjoyed the choreography.

     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    for the last time, people can criticize what they want, all they want if that's what they want to do.
    but you're right: i'm the one who's now wasting my time reading and responding to it. XD

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I think the nitpicking issue cam up because @DailyPlunge was trying to compare that the Vader/Luke lightsaber fight in ESB is liked by many in a universally loved movie when it has the same problems that the fight in the throne room of TLJ has yet people are pointing to the bad choreography as a reason for why TLJ is bad. That is inconsistent. To use a hot dog analogy (since it has been used here and with the Fourth of July being tomorrow), its like saying that hot dog A (ESB)and hot dog B(TLJ) have the same mustard (flawed lightsaber choreography) but hot dog b is terrible because of the mustard yet hot dog A is the best hot dog ever.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The Empire Strikes Back and more generally the original trilogy has the weakest fight choreography of the Star Wars films. That was simply the product of the technology restrictions they had creating the lightsaber effect. It certainly doesn't diminish those films. What we saw in The Last Jedi wasn't something entirely new. There was a heavy influence from samurai films like Three Outlaw Samurai. Hey, if people don't like that sort of thing that's fair game, but there's this silly idea that it's not enough to simply dislike the film and there's something objectively wrong with it.

    Where you get stuff like this:
    I've omitted the author because I'd rather not drag this thread into the hate thread, but this is just the "there's something objectively wrong" that's crafted to try to convince the majority of people who like the film that they should have hated it.
     
    #1045 DailyPlunge, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
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  6. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I think I have, in sincerity, clearly stated my point of contention. And that contention was not merely a question of whether or not someone can criticize what they want (even though you keep repeating only that). So no worries, no response expected or required.

    objectively adverb
    ob·jec·tive·ly | \ əb-ˈjek-tiv-lē , äb-\
    : in an objective rather than subjective or biased way : with a basis in observable facts rather than feelings or opinions

    There are things objectively wrong with the LS fight as well as other aspects of the film. Why you are having a visceral reaction to this is a bit of a mystery since every movie has errors. The disappearing knife in the throne room is an observable mistake, it is objectively wrong. Anyone who states that, is demonstrably correct. If that diminished their enjoyment of the scene, who can say that person is wrong?

    LOL is that what you are doing in the "Hate Thread"? Crafting arguments to convince the majority of the people who dislike the film that they should have liked it? LOL, OK.
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I would put this in " feelings or opinions" category.
    I wouldn't say their feelings are opinions are wrong. I also wouldn't call their feelings or opinions objective. It doesn't diminish the scene for me. You hated the film long before someone found this "mIsTaKe."



    Nope. :)
     
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  8. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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