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SPECULATION Timelines

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DarthLuketheWise, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. DarthLuketheWise

    DarthLuketheWise Rebelscum

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    Given the events of the Aftermath Trilogy and then Bloodline, it's become clear that a LOT happens in a relatively short period of time. Yes, there's a huge vacuum between those books, but it is stated in Canon that the events of Bloodline occur SIX years prior to TFA. That tells us this:

    - The First Order had yet to present itself
    - Lady Carise and other Centrists were busy preparing for the First Order, but were seemingly ignorant of the true "remnant" preparing in the Unknown Regions eg. Seemingly no knowledge of Snoke or any dark side influence and no knowledge of Hux and Troops
    - The Centrists that were in the know had been preparing a remnant of the fleet of the fallen Empire under the Amaxines and channeling money thru criminal cartels in preparation
    - During this timeline, as far as Leia knows, Ben is still WITH Luke searching the galaxy for Jedi lore/artifacts. There is no mention of any Jedi Academy or training ground
    - Ben learns of his relation to Darth Vader not from his parents but through the Holonets at some point, once Leia is outed in the Galactic Senate
    - The Resistance as it is known in TFA begins it's formation at the end of Bloodline

    So in between those events of 6 years, Kylo learns of his relationship not only to Darth Vader but also to Snoke and the First Order. But most importantly the relationship of his mother and Uncle to Darth Vader. He betrays Luke and his parents and joins the First Order. It's my opinion that the Knights of Ren were already in place, a natural progression from the Acolytes of the Beyond we read of in the Aftermath trilogy.

    So if Luke indeed has a Jedi Academy, when was it set up? It doesn't sound like prior to the events of Bloodline. And that would also clearly suggest Rey had nothing to do with said Academy. Her life on Jakku was from childhood and remains a mystery, seemingly unconnected from Luke and Ben's adventures.

    So at some point in the relatively short period of time between Bloodline and TFA, the First Order unleashed itself from the Unknown Regions under the command of Snoke, Kylo Ren and Hux. And presumably the Knights of Ren.

    And considering the remnant in the Unknown Regions.. that included Sloane and Hux and whomever awaited them on the Eclipse and beyond.. I don't think Ben becomes Kylo Ren until they emerge to the known Galaxy. I could be wrong. But I find it hard to believe Snoke is the all powerful dark side force Palpatine felt in the beyond as he prepared his Contingency Plan. I think there is something far greater and perhaps Snoke is the spokesman, of sorts. Who knows.

    A lot of questions but it seems to me Rey had nothing to do with the above and thus her Force Back vision did not physically place her at the time of the presumed Jedi Academy's destruction.
     
    #1 DarthLuketheWise, Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    maybe his academy was so far along that he wasnt needed on a daily basis and he took Ben with him because he was his first student as well as his best student at the time and maybe both were going to betray each other and Rey was still on Luke's radar and Luke thought that taking ben away would have saved his students but the KOR still attacked and Luke was betrayed within the 6 eyar time span.
     
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  3. DarthLuketheWise

    DarthLuketheWise Rebelscum

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    Hard to say isn't it? If Ben had been in training with Luke at an Academy among other students, surely that would have been alluded to in Bloodline? It seemed to me it was just the two of them... Uncle and nephew exploring the galaxy. But who knows, you're right.. that was all from Leia's perspective. But still, doesn't sound like Luke had a whole lot organized other than his need for exploration at the time. I just don't see how Rey possibly fits into any of that, short of a mind wipe in quick order.. and given her vision and hard life on Jukku, it seems to me she has been there adapting for a much longer than 6 years
     
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  4. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Luke technically never had this so-called academy according to Pablo.

     
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  5. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Here is a quote from Bloodline that muddies the waters a bit in terms of Luke's students. This is from Lady Carise's POV:

    Skywalker had been so long away on his strange quest for the lore of the Jedi that he no longer had much influence outside his own acolytes. He was a figure of myth more than one of flesh and blood. (p. 203 in the hardcover, bold by me)
    I'm not sure what "acolytes" means here--students? admirers? those who still worship the Force? (Though almost certainly not the Acolytes of the Beyond.)

    In Bloodline Leia does seem to think in terms of only Luke and Ben doing Jedi-type things, but she just might not pay that much heed to other students since she probably doesn't know them. But in light of Pablo's comments, whatever this new generation of Jedi was that Luke was training, it wasn't a formalized institution.
     
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  6. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    An Acolyte is just an assistant or follower in definition terms, but it seems Luke was intent on finding something that only involved him and Ben for some reason. Either that or they stumbled upon something that only they found and it caused Ben to turn. I guess, maybe Snoke was part of it by orchestrating it or in an attempt to kill him.

    There is so little info about anything much. It's kinda odd really that we have nothing to go on. So little about Luke since ROTJ, little about Kylo, etc...
     
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  7. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Not that odd, really--TPTB have to keep us wanting to see what TLJ will reveal... (Like we were ever not going to! ;))

    But it does seem a little breadcrumb trail is being left for us about Force relics and "new to us"/ancient Force practices that might play into all this. And all that kind of leads back to...how/when exactly does Snoke, this mysterious Dark Side Force user (apparently) pull all this FO stuff together? Does Rey and her being on Jakku have anything at all to do with it?
     
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  8. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I think it has alot to do with Jakku and maybe Rey, but not totally sure.

    I have also wondered if Luke went outside the norm and organized this following with good intentions, or because his father was Vader he began to have followers so he taught them and they practically worshipped him because of being the last of his kind so to speak and his connections.

    And was Lor San Tekka a follower or a teacher? There has to be a huge connection with Jakku or people wouldn't be so drawn there.
     
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  9. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    But it seems that in Bloodline only a handful of people (Han, Leia, Luke, and maybe Mon Mothma) knew that Luke was Vader's son, although the general public know he is Leia's brother. It's not until Leia's parentage is outed that they would figure that out. So any followers who came to Luke with the intention of being a disciple/padawan of Vader's son would have come...well, only in those crucial last six years before TFA, presumably after Ben turned. And most of us have been working on the assumption that this group of Luke's was destroyed by then, at roughly the same time as Ben turned, and was perhaps his "first" Dark Side act.

    As for Jakku... According to Aftermath: Empire's End (and some other sources), Jakku had an ancient navigational laboratory, perhaps originally set up via ancient Sith associations? (It's not clear.) All kinds of Sithy things were set up during Palpatine's reign at these kinds of labs, including nasty things like Force draining. We just don't know what happened at the Jakku lab beyond what's in A:EE.

    But seeing as how the Coruscant Jedi Temple was set up over an ancient Sith temple, it wouldn't surprise me that Lor San Tekka's Church of the Force settlement was established on Jakku for similar Force-type reasons. Whether LST was a leader of it or simply a Jedi fanboy (maybe even a former Luke-follower?), he was obviously a person of importance to Leia (her "old ally") and Kylo Ren, since he is the one KR confronts.

    There's more to Jakku than we know yet...
     
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  10. DarthLuketheWise

    DarthLuketheWise Rebelscum

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    Well said, Choose Light! It was late last night and I'd had a little St Pat's cheer lol. Everyone has raised some really good points :)
     
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  11. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Thank you. :) I'm working under the assumption that the Dark Side source calling Palpatine was 1. real and 2. Snoke, but...it's an interesting idea in your OP that Snoke is actually just the spokesperson for it. :eek:
     
    #11 Choose Light, Mar 18, 2017
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  12. DarthLuketheWise

    DarthLuketheWise Rebelscum

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    Hehe yeah.. just a suspicion I have but of course I could be way off. I'm hoping the Thrawn book may give us a little more insight as well!
     
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  13. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It would seem very interesting if:

    Luke was accidentally responsible for turning the acolytes of the beyond (his jedi students but not the new jedi order) into the knights of ren so he and ben left when they started feeling the pull of snoke towards the dark once again taking the balance away from the force so Luke took Ben and they left to find the force origins and the first jedi temple but Snoke then siced the acolytes onto Ben and Luke and Luke was over-powered and defeated, nearly being killed, and Ben was taken to Snoke's lair to be tortured and brainwashed and whatnot and that turned him into Kylo Ren 10-6 years before TFA so that the whole acolytes thing happening about 13-15 years before TFA...btw when i say "acolytes of the beyond" there might be multiple orders of them similar to multiple orders of force users now.
     
  14. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    I don't know why any Acolytes of the Beyond would want to have Jedi training in the first place though. They worship Dark Side relicts/users, and they would have no idea Luke or Ben had any relation to Vader before 6 years before TFA. (Unless I'm missing something in your post...?)
     
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  15. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Wasn't the Acolytes of the Beyond started by Brendol Hux or was it Rax?
     
  16. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    I don't think it's stated anywhere for sure (unless it's in the first Aftermath book?), but I don't think it had anything to do with Brendol Hux. I personally don't think Rax started it either. It's a Force cult, and neither of those two are interested/believers in the Force. We do know Tashu was one of its leaders, so perhaps he started it?
     
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  17. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Well first of all thanx @DarthLuketheWise this thread was needed :)

    But I think we should mention some other few things we know for sure about post-ROTJ Luke.

    A- 3 Months after Endor he is with Shara Bey on a mission to retrieve the force trees.
    B- 1 year after Endor - at the time of Ben Solo's Birth - he's already been away, travelling, for lots of the time .
    So much so, he probably wasn't present when Ben was born or that he came only to pay a short visit.
    C- At some point (we don't know when) he goes to Farnay to whom he have swored (at some point between ANH and ESB) he would become a Jedi and rebuild the Order.

    Given all this and what you all are saying, I guess Luke was travelling around the Galaxy from day one after Endor.
    The first question is why?
    Does he know something? And if so, what? And who or what told him that something?
    ____
    A little bit of speculation

    There's a line in Shattared Empire I find interesting.
    Before givin Shara Bey one of the tree he says "One of course is spoken for".
    The most common assumption is that he kept for himself the first tree.
    Since the writers have made a comparison between the force trees and the holocros, while explaining how the concept
    of the force tree came out, it is possible that Luke learn something from the tree itself.

    But maybe not. Maybe in fact he gifted the first tree to someone else too ("is spoken for") and maybe to same person that told him about the tree...

    In fact, again, who told Luke - in the first place - about the force tree and the Vetine base?
    An holocron? The force ghosts? Maybe.
    Or someone else?
    Lor San Tekka? Maybe.
    Farnay? Why not if Luke went to her just after Endor and not much time later ...

    I've posted this (see imagine) on Reddit, but that was about a possible connection between Anakinn/Luke's lightsaber, Farnay and other chararcters (including Rey's parents or whomever left her). Of course there could be other connections or none of them :)

    Any thoughts?
    Better ideas?
     

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    #17 lealt, Mar 19, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
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  18. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I think that is plausible because of some of the things heard before TFA came out.

    As for Luke he was there when Ben was born for a short period. I think it is mentioned in Bloodlines.
     
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  19. DarthLuketheWise

    DarthLuketheWise Rebelscum

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    Shattered Empire is an important part of the timeline as well, thanks for sharing! I wasn't aware of the other stuff from the comics, very interesting :)

    One thing bugging me.. you say Ben was born one year after the Battle of Endor? He was born pretty much at the end of the events of Aftermath. Is it stated that all the events of Aftermath took place in ONE year??
     
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  20. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    If I remember correctly, in Empire's Ends it is stated that Ben was born 1 year after the battle of Endor.
    Same for the Battle of Jakku: 1 year after Endor.
     
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