TLJ: Kylo Ren Becoming Darth Vader?

He should put a tattoo of his eight pack on his forehead.

I'd love to have "knowing he's sympathetic and using it" Kylo. But that sounds rather Machiavelli, he's not like that. He's brutally honest with his emotions because he can't control them-yelling like a moron after Rey rejection on Crait.

Source to IX discussion? Bearded Kylo could make him Sith obi wan!

 

They share Lots of similarity's, but also differ a lot.

Anakins reason for turning to the dark side was actually his (obsessive) love for Padme.
He was willing to sell his soul to save her life, but in doing so he actually ensured her death.
He was doomed by love and ultimately saved by love.

As a child, Anakin was born a slave but very much loved by his mother. he was very bright and self assured. and as an adult he became arrogant with his power.

Ben's reasons for turning dark still leaves room for speculation.
But I suspect he was sent to Luke because his own parents feared him.
They did love him but didn't know how to handle him and his awakening power.
He was probably a lonely child with insecurity issues and not many friends.
His heritage could also have been a problem for him, being the grandchild of a feared tyrant and his uncle being the saviour of the galaxy.
Maybe he was bullied because of that.
Whatever his reasons, his past is still largely unknown.


Kylo Ren is not becoming Darth Vader simply because he is not Darth Vader.
Kylo also seems to have more a mind of his own than Vader ever had.
Vader was very powerful, but in the end he was still a slave.
Kylo killed his master way sooner than we expected showing he doesn't take orders anymore.
He is his own master now.

That's where they differ.

 

He will become a new entity, and be called
DARTH EMOREN!

 

I think Kylo has already exceeded Vader by becoming the new emperor. I don't think there's any further for him to go in the Dark Side, he has now crossed fully over.

I don't think Ben is beyond a redemption though. The ST seems like an inversion of the PT.

• TPM - Anakin is good and crosses paths with Padme.
• AOTC - Anakin and Padme realize their belonging with each other, meanwhile Anakin struggles with the Dark Side.
• ROTS - Anakin loses Padme and becomes evil.

• TFA - Ben is evil and crosses paths with Rey.
• TLJ - Ben embraces the Dark Side, meanwhile Ben and Rey struggle in their belonging with each other.
• IX - Ben gains Rey and becomes good.

I anticipate in IX, Ben is redeemed and fulfills his destiny of standing with Rey. Post-episode IX, I see Ben assuming a Revan role - a reformed Jedi living with the consequences of his evil past.

 

I some ways he exceeds Vader, and in some way he falls short.

Exceeding because he's acting out on his own, being his own master.
And lacking because he's uncertain about his feelings and therefore unstable in the force.
Vader never doubted his feelings and actions, he was always certain of himself thanks to his arrogance.
Not Ben, he's a raging ball of emotional conflict. The two sides in him battling for dominance.

Has he been completely crossed over?....why don't we see the evil Sith eyes on him then?

Btw, I like that inversion, I hope that will happen in the future.

 

Yeah, the lack of Sith eyes bugs me. I don't understand why Kylo does not have them since he regularly feeds off the Dark Side. Maybe we'll see them in IX now that he is the new emperor and is more committed/immersed in the Dark. Would also rhyme with Anakin's Sith eye reveal in the third film of the PT.

 

Well I think it's implied they can choose not to show those eyes, Dooku didn't seem to have them and Palpatine hid them for most of his public life at least.

 

What is it with this obsession towards Vader?

I mean, the FA movie spend a lot of time with Kylo looking to the Vader mask and proclaiming his admiration.
The LJ "throne" scene Snoke tells that Kylo will become Vader or something like that.

Although Vader has the badass suit, the badass voice, that choking people thing and the "i am your father" thing, he is just a puppet of the emperor even outranked by GM Tarkin at the ANH movie. Yeah he is a famous force user and pretty good leader/soldier but thats all.

Ben/kylo never met with the guy. Snoke admiration towards Vader not Sidious is unexplained and now that he is dead i don't think we are going to get an explanation.

The way the sequels keeps us reminding Vader looks pretty much fan service, because they know the crowd love the character.

Does anyone have a better understanding of this?

 

Probably Snoke has been manipulating Kylo for years, turning Vader into an awesome figure for his grandson to admire.

 

I think the only reason Snoke would mention Vader was because of Kylo's obsession with him (Vader).
It was his goal to be Vader. Snoke used that to manipulate Kylo into becoming completely dark. Snoke
used it as a tool to get Kylo where he needed him to be.

 

Kylo will do exactly what JJ wants him to. I am done with theories at this point. There is no buildup in the sequel trilogy, no carefully planned narrative. Kylo is whatever the director wants him to be and since there is no masterplan it is useless making theories or speculating. The Knights of Ren, Snoke's background, Rey's heriatge.., They were all made up on the fly so don't expect things to be any different in IX. They will have a post mortem discussion in a shareholder meeting at Disney and then they will decide what audiences want to see in IX.

 

Now I kind of want everyone to have a beard to show the passsge of time: Kylo, Poe, Rey, Finn, Rose- the whole cast.

Anyway, my personal hope is that Kylo ditches everything, changes his name, and opens an artisanal cupcake bakery on Naboo.

 

I do believe that too. I just don't know why. I mean, to me the Vader story represents a dark side failure.

 

Well he probably omitted the part where Vader was redeemed and killed the emperor, or maybe that was the part Kylo liked but instead of dying he just wanted to replace the emperor, like he did in this movie.

 

My opinion: Vader is an integral part to the Skywalker bloodline being the Chosen One and is the reason why this family is so strong with the Force. Ben being the grandson of such a legendary figure is bound to stir some references, especially since these are the sequels to the culturally iconic OT.

I think the references have been kept tastefully small though. 'Vader' is only uttered 2-3 times in TFA and TLJ with just one scene dedicated to Vader thus far (the mask scene in TFA). They could have done something far worse for fan service, like resurrecting Vader or cloning him for these new films ala Alien Resurrection's Ripley *shudders*. Despite the initial obsession, Kylo smashing his Vader-esque mask in the first few minutes of TLJ tells me he is now defining his own character and trying less to live in his grandfather's shadow.

 

I hate to break it to you but every event you talk about here was discussed and people saw evidence for from TFA. So if TFA foreshadowed these things that means that there was a plan. The fact that people theorized who Rey "Must" be because she dresses like Skywalker peasants, carries a rusty metal rod "that must be Darth Plagueis lightsabre because she's a Skywalker, or because the spirit voice of Obi-Wan paid attention doesn't change the fact that there was also evidence she was no one. Johnson changed nothing what he did falls completely in line with Maz's words to Rey, that Daisy was surprised people still wondered about her family, why JJ said her parents weren't in the film.

Snoke was never Darth Plaugeis (thank the Maker), he was always Kylo's teacher and that he would die by Kylo's hand was predicted because it was clear that Ben and Rey were struggling over the Skywalker Legacy. So Snoke wasn't ever the center of the drama. This was obvious even when the leaks about TFA cane out. Kylo was going to be the Big Bad. Why because before the TFA he was already already a traitor, already why Han and Leia weren't living happily ever after and why Luke's temple was destroyed. The KOR are simply warriors under Kylo's command. Likely the students that Kylo didn't kill but who left with him that Luke mentions. Again this was something some fans saw as possible and postulated. These elements foreshadowed were confirmed by Johnson.