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Toxic Fandom

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by KeithF1138, May 17, 2018.

  1. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Over the last two days I have read 2 articles/posts from journalists about toxic Fandom in Star Wars. One is a facebook post by John Campea how he was immediately attacked simply for giving Solo a positive review. The other is an article on Observer.Com. I do believe it is becoming a problem. I was wondering does StarWarsNewNet have any particular policy towards this sort of thing, and even more so should a number of major sites come together and speak out against toxic fandom. Not talking about civil disagreement, but the baseless blind attacks simply for saying you like or dislike something.

    http://observer.com/2018/05/star-wars-fandom-toxic-disney-lucasfilm/
     
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  2. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Our policy is in our rules. On our blog as well:

    We are trying to implement these as best as we can and as quickly as we can. If we are sometime slower to react, it's because not all the situations are cut and dry and we are trying really hard never to veer into censorship, plus all of the mods and staff are volunteers with real jobs, families, etc. We are trying to make this a positive place overall, open for discussion and closed for all kinds of harassment.

    BTW, that Observer article is great. I can't read Campea's post, because I don't have FB, but I can believe it.
     
    #2 LadyMusashi, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  3. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    You know what they say- "Nobody hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans".

    I just wish that wasn't the case. For a series that basically preaches that passion should be tempered with better judgment, some fans really don't seem to have gotten the message.
     
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  5. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    By the Force, those messages... These are not the fans, I don't know what these people are.

    I don't know how effective that would be.


    As I said, those are really not fans. That's why they didn't get the message.
     
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  6. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Solo is bringing out the toxic fandom big time. This is what a movie reviewer who gave Solo a negative review got. Dont get the idea that the reviewer is getting attacked for the negative review.
     
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  7. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Bendemptionist
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    as @LadyMusashi (and the reporter in the observer noted), these people aren't fans. they're insane.
    we can keep the threads relatively civil here and on the blog, but it's not going to stop psychotics from spewing their filth.

    it's unfortunate, but the internet brings out the worst in this way because of the anonymous nature of social media.
    real Star Wars fans might be disappointed or even hate something about the franchise, but the kind of people who stoop to this level are not fans.
    they barely qualify as human beings.

    our best defense against this kind of craziness is not to give it any kind of attention or platform; in other words, don't feed the trolls.
    block them, ignore them. none of us are ultimately responsible for their failure to conduct themselves reasonably, but maybe it's our duty not to give them any kind of audience. much as i love the above article, i think posting the tweets is just giving those cretins exactly the five seconds of fame they desire.
     
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  8. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    *sings* Why can't we be fans, why can't we be fans, we can't we...
     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Genuinely wondering why he thought "The Last Red Eye Jedi" was such a sick burn that he used it so much in those posts...
     
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  10. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    You don't get it because you're stupid! ... But seriously, is this some obscure reference? I don't understand it either.
     
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  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Talk about subverting expectations...:rolleyes:
     
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Bendemptionist
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    see: urban dictionary.
     
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  13. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Huh... *checks Urban Dictionary* Is it about the green milk? I still don't fully get it. Everything on Urban Dictionary has at least one sex-related meaning.
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Bendemptionist
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    something about being stoned and showing buttholes, i guess.
    i think it's just a degrading jedi reference to make a title out of (like "farce awakens").

    i guess he thinks it's clever?
     
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  15. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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  16. Sargon

    Sargon Rebelscum

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    I think this sort of "toxic fandom" is not something that is particular to Star Wars, but I have noticed it is a largely new trend, and I think it mainly has to do with the prevalence of social media, noteably Facebook, Youtube and Twitter, and this bleeds into other areas of the internet like Reddit, further fuelled by the divisive political rhetoric of the moment.

    I first noticed this around 2008 or so, which I would say is when those social media platforms really went mainstream, but it still took a few more years to really develop as a "toxicity facilitator." I noticed it in gaming circles first, that was the big thing at the time, most people weren't posting about Star Wars.

    The thing is, there wasn't social media around in 1999-2005, and I think if there was you might see similar atmosphere to what you see today in terms of people knee-jerk-reacting and the heated exchanges. I used to post in message boards in 1998 and 1999 (theforce.net was the go-to site back then), and it was really hostile because so many fans hated the prequels and special editions but then a lot of fans also wanted to defend them because they were excited for new stuff coming out. But you had to go to sites like theforce.net, register your account, and then talk in message threads with fellow Star Wars fans, it was a lot more of a process than it was now, so it wasn't quite as all-pervasive as it seems nowadays when Youtube videos get hundreds of thousands of views in a few days. The closest you came to social media and Reddit back then was the IMDB message boards, because it was anonymous and encompassed anyone who knew about movies, and I think that's the reason why they closed them a few years ago, but it still it wasn't as easy as just a click of a button for whatever ignornat view you had like it is today.

    I think the entire political rhetoric right now is also at an all-time hostility level because of President Trump and the rise of the alt-right. There weren't people hating on the prequels for racist and misogynist reasons, and I think even if there was social media back then this still wouldn't have been the case, because it wasn't a mainstream part of the political discourse back then the way it is now, those groups in many ways did not operate as openly and were not as tolerated. Social media also keeps people in an echo chamber. That's one of the reasons I think I keep seeing Youtube videos of "Star Wars is DEAD", "Kathleen Kennedy is DONE", etc. I used to assume a lot of these people are just naive teenagers that haven't been around long enough to understand the bigger picture, but some of those videos are posted by 30 year olds (who then get instant validation from the naive teenage audience that is 90% of the Youtube demographic). There is an entire...I don't really know what to call it..."fanboy entitlement" problem? It's hard to term it, because then it sounds like anyone who complains is some whining fanboy. But as I said, I noticed it first in gaming culture around the beginning of this decade, and a lot of it has to do with the same type of problems that Star Wars is going through: opening up to a new generation, and new demographics of people. Video games for the longest time were dominated by straight, white males under the age of 30. That's why so much of the "fanboy rhetoric" is cross-contaminated with similar arguments of the alt-right, it's an unusual confluence of politics and art/culture that now has a bigger and louder mouthpiece for the entire debate. Especially as genres formerly niche/nerdy enter a very mainstream status.

    I think that's one reason why on boards like this the discussion is largely more informed and more civil, because it takes some level of effort to deliberately come here and engage with fans.

    Anyway, there's a lot of facets to the whole thing. I will agree Star Wars fandom is very toxic, but I would also say this is not exclusive to Star Wars and touches other popular fandoms of the moment, from Rick and Morty to gaming in general. I'm actually shocked that the Marvel fanbase as a whole seems to be somewhat tame overall, and I think it's because Marvel mostly plays it safe and mostly plays into the fan expectations already there.
     
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  17. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    You had me until the 4th paragraph. I don't agree with many of your assertions there. Agree on the rise of social media and the anonymous nature of posting on message boards, youtube comment sections, etc. I would rather not get into the political arguments you bring up, let's just say I blow up a lot of your arguments there.....
     
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  18. Sargon

    Sargon Rebelscum

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    I doubt that. "Anti-SJW" wasn't a thing during the prequels. There wasn't widespread groups trying to boycott the films because of George Lucas' "liberal agenda", even when he would straight-up admit to proudly having one, unlike Disney that plays it a bit less politically, outwardly speaking. That also ties into the intersectionality with social media. I'm not even saying this is something I agree with or not, but there is a reason why that movement towards Star Wars completely coincides with that movement in the wider political rhetoric, and coincides with the rise of social media as well. It's all part of a larger matrix. It's not just a coincidence these things all intersect with each other.
     
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  19. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    OK. You brought it up. I don't believe there is a "movement in the wider political rhetoric". I don't fit your narrative.
     
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  20. KesselRunner

    KesselRunner Rebel General

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    There are exceptions to every rule. While it's true that negativity is "en vogue" these days (for a multitude of individual reasons), a person really ought to take everyting they see and hear with with a dose of realistic skepticism. One of my favorite (paraphrased) quotes is "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see."

    I'm always a little disappointed when I see disagreements described as "toxic" as though a difference of opinion is somehow a poison that will destroy us. I don't believe that for a second. The Star Wars fandom is in flux right now, people are worried that one of the things they love the most is changing in a way they can't follow. Because Star Wars fans are human, and conflict is in our blood, people will find whatever venue they can to vent their frustrations; sometimes even at the expense of someone else's feelings. To be perfectly honest, sometimes you just have to let your baby cry themselves to sleep. I mean that not in the sense that people are crybabies, but in the sense that sometimes it takes the patience of a loving parent to resolve an issue; even if the issue is with a complete stranger...on the internet...in the comment section of a youtube video...or a forum like this... :D
     
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