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Trilogy not planned?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by cassidy, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I'm sure that is how you feel. But I just don't agree with you.
     
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  2. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    A) No, this is about VIII also...It's VIII that did the things that make continuation questionable. You asked my thoughts on a "continuation of the story," unless I understood you wrong.
    B) Okay, no reason to argue with that
    C) What does she go through? I'm honestly asking. She learns her parents are nobody...yet she already said in TFA (albeit in an unused scene), "I'm no one." It's not exactly earth-shattering news. She confronts Snoke but gets away unscathed (seriously, she might as well have been absent from that scene. The only one who changes during it is Kylo Ren). She could already perform Force telekinesis in TFA and use a lightsaber, and she can still do that here (when she lifts the rocks and fights the Praetorian Guards). She really didn't learn anything from Luke in this movie that she didn't know before. She didn't experience any kind of real pull to the Dark Side, despite the cave scene. She's as firmly cemented in the light as she was before, and there's nothing in TLJ to challenge that. (By contrast, Anakin had his love for Padme and Luke had the discovery that Vader was his long-lost dad).

    Poe as a leader? Okay, you've got me there. But Finn? Didn't he supposedly stop running away in TFA? That was the whole point of his leaving the First Order? That he stood up to Kylo Ren in the forest and rescued Rey on SKB? Then TLJ sets him back at ground zero and makes him discover a sense of heroism again. He's exactly where he was at the end of TFA.

    As for Leia, yeah, I do want to see what they'll do with her...But that's "what are they gonna do in the absence of an actress," rather than something TLJ set up for us to expect. With TLJ on its own, you'd guess it's Resistance-business as usual for Leia. Granted, if she's killed offscreen, it would make an interesting plot point for Kylo Ren.
     
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  3. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    ... um ...
    ...anyways ... Back to the Topic, 'Trilogy Not Planned' ...
    Yep.

    I got another though I didn't put up previous.
    So, what we were told initially was "that Lucasfilm had no overarching story in place for the trilogy ..." Almost Three months ago.
    Right.

    When LFL came under the Disney company, it came with the three Story outlines for a Sequel Trilogy,
    That there Sequel Trilogy has a planned end.

    Somebody, somewheres, knows what that is.
    We for sure don't ... and that's ok.
    What happens in the in-between to get there and what part/parts, things, places, character/characters if any/all/some or none of them
    do or don't get used ... that's ok too.
     
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  4. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I love it how I receive four "hopefuls" whereas everything I'm saying is clearly outlined in all the making off material. Cheers!
     
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  5. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    Agreed, i know a lot of people feel different, but one of my biggest issues with the last Jedi (and in some ways the Force awakens) is that it doesn't feel that enough time and care was put into the plot and story of the film, within the film itself and within this new trilogy and the larger star wars story.

    Other people obviously disagree, but thats how I personally feel about the film
     
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  6. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I think that there are two reasons for the disjointed feel of the ST.

    a) Artists are often pressured by the producers to deliver subpar work to meet deadlines. Like most companies Disney is mostly interesting in making money which is understandable but can hurt the quality of their products. Contrary to Blizzard's philosophy "it's done when it's done" Disney wanted to test the potency of their new IP as quickly as possible and so they rushed TFA introducing us to new characters and plotlines without knowing where they would be going in the future. After that Disney could have stopped and work these things out before moving forward but they didn't. They decided to do 1 SW movie a year rather than starting production when the script was ready. You could compare the overall plot of the sequel trilogy to a building. Due to the lack of a solid foundation the building is becoming more and more unstable the more floors you add...

    b) There's no creative mastermind behind the Disney era SW. Some of you will say, that Kathleen Kennedy is the head of Lucasfilm and thus ultimately in chare of the direction SW is going but KK's forte is the economic side of the franchise, not the creative one. Lucas might have made some weird decisions during his long career but he was a brilliant business man AND more importantly a visionary. When Lucas sold the franchise, KK only filled his position as far as the economic side of SW is concerned but she failed to fill the void he left in terms of a general creative vision. I'm not even saying that she herself should be in charge of the story but she should have found someone to map out the trilogy before principal photography TFA even began. Now we have the visions of multiple creative people clashing with each other rather than complementing each other.

    It's a shame, really and I feel like we are at the lowest point in the history of SW since the prequels. I loved TFA because I thought the alledged plotholes were carefully planned setups for VIII and beyond. Turns out they weren't. I saw this forum coming up with wonderful and crazy fan theories on an almost daily basis after TFA. Now noboy on this message board even bothers coming up with theories anymore because they would be a waste of time. Why try to fit the pieces of a puzzle together if there is no puzzle to begin with?
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Feel free to jump into the conversation, but as you can see from the first quote we were talking about 7 to 8. K... That aside.
    As I noted, there's plenty of things continuing into 9. It's takes a pretty limited imagination to argue there isn't a story to tell.
    Rey goes to Luke to be trained and he refuses to train her. Then she's haunted by Kylo Ren. She feels so isolated and alone that she turns to the only person she connects with... she believe he'll turn and when the moment comes Kylo rejects her. Faced with the choice she chooses not to follow him. I find it odd that people don't think she didn't go through anything in this film. I wonder if this is male/female thing? Rey experiences a lot, but it's not all laser sword fighting.
    Nope, not really. He was solely focused on finding Rey. His fight with Kylo Rey was in protection of Rey. At the start of TLJ he's still trying to save Rey. The Resistance is an after thought. That changes in TLJ. DJ presents this cynical view of war to Finn. Finn could simply agree and not fight, but he chooses to fight and die for the Resistance. Rose shows him another way.
    Well, before her death TLJ set up a confrontation of some kind between daughter and son. It's a real bummer we're not going to that in this trilogy. It would have been a perfect way to end this saga.
    I certainly don't feel we're at a low point. The prequels weren't great films. Everyone knew it. They were a cultural letdown for everyone. Sure some people don't like TLJ, but it's reflective small group. When I didn't like the prequels I didn't go to web forums to talk about Star Wars. I simply quit caring about Star Wars.

    I can't wait to see The Last Jedi again. It's been a few weeks and I can't wait to sit down and take in so many great moments.
     
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  8. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    Exactly. Incredibly there was no overall plan for the biggest franchise of all time. That’s why these films feel so tacked on and underwhelming.
     
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  9. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I said lowest point since the prequels, not in all of SW. I would also argue that your "vocal minority theory" is far fetched an unproven but I'm not going to debate this topic again. If the underwhelming BO and mediocre online ratings can't convince you otherwise, then nothing can :)
     
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  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I agree with not arguing further either. If you're argument is polls where people can vote over and over and box office that are in line with previous middle chapters then nothing I can say will convince you. :)
     
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  11. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Sure. ALL websites had trolls who down-voted TLJ but not TFA and R1. ALL sequelst start at 90% BO, experience the steepest drop in SW history and end up at 60% total BO. ALL experts estimated wrong BO because that's just the way it is with sequels. Seems more reasonable than "divisive movie results in mediocre ratings which lead to mediocre BO".

    PS: You might want to look up Occcam's Razor if you are unfamiliar with it ;)
     
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Welp. :p
     
  13. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I was just having a little sarcastic monologue there. It's not like you're receptive to arguments anyways as far as this topic is concerned. But do me a favor and look up Occam's razor and try if there's any theory of yours you could apply it too ;)
     
  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I know what Occam's razor is and I understand confirmation bias. What I don't understand is why a person would cite a scientific term and at the same time cite a widely debunked online poll. Alas, such is the reason arguing it further is a waste of time.
     
  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Maybe they gave him so much control because he was easy to work with
     
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  16. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I didn't cite a single poll in my post but okay. Well at least you now know why your "trolls downvoting polls" hypothesis doesn't work. That's on step in the right direction. I feel like we're actually making progress here :D
     
  17. cassidy

    cassidy Rebel General

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    Couldn't agree with this more. The two most successful trilogies in my mind are the OT and LOTR. Both had creative geniuses at the helm - George Lucas and Peter Jackson. It's clear the ST lacks a figure to maintain consistency and direction.
     
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  18. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    This. This this this.

    People spent hours debating the meaning of every little frame of TFA. What did Rey's vision mean? Why was Yoda's voice in it? Why was Obi-Wan's voice in it? How does Obi-Wan know Rey by name? Who were the Knights of Ren? Where did Snoke come from? Who was he? How did Maz get Luke's Lightsbaer? All the talk and all the theories all ended up being for nothing.

    So I can't help but chuckle at the idea of scouring E8 for clues to E9. As you stated perfectly, it's a waste of time.
     
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  19. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Just to point out- earlier someone tried making the point that since originally EpIX was going to be "Leia's arc", that's evidence that the trilogy is not planned.

    If anything, it's evidence to the contrary, and supports the idea that the trilogy was planned- after all, it supports the idea that not only were Rey and Kylo's arcs planned, but even other characters like Leia.

    It does show the obvious, in that in the unfortunate event of Carrie Fischer's death some adjustments had to be made to the plot, but that by no means it wasn't planned to begin with.
     
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  20. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    The thing is that we don't know how well they planned the trilogy based on your example of Leia. They could have said something like: "First movie has a lot of Han in it, second a lot of Luke and the last a lot of Leia." Or they could have made plans like: ...Then finally, in scene 97 Leia, now in posession of Anakin's lightsaber helps Rey, by deflecting the forcelighting Kylo sends at her..." Taking it one step further there could have already been a finishid storyboard hanging at pinewood studios, waiting for the production of IX to start when VIII wasn't even released...

    As you can see there are multiple stages of planning and I would argue that Disney never made it past the initial phases of laying ou the story for the trilogy as a whole. There are multiple indicators for this:

    - interviews with Rian and JJ that they both had unlimited creative freedom to come up with their own ideas. This wouldn't be possible if there was already a story in place.
    - Rian and JJ both stated that they were not involved in the trilogy moving forward. JJ passed on the story to Rian who then would have passed it on to Trevorrow to do with it whatever he wants. This is not what a carefully planned trilkogy looks like. There would have to be a lot more involvement form JJ in VIII and RJ in IX.
    - The writing of the script for VIII started when VII was already halfway done, the writing of the script for IX started when VIII was already in post. The writing process of the story is to disjointed to be carefully planned and there is no single screenplay writer attached to the projects.
    -Trevorrows script has been trashed and replaced by JJ's which shows how little is set in stone. JJ would have rerworked Trevorrows script rather than replace it if they had some prevously agreed upon storyguidelines.
    - least but not least. The production of almost every Disney SW movie has been messy. They burnt through 8 directors in 4 movies. A carefully planned production doesn't need so many different directors.
     
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