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SPECULATION Twisted Ending

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Caligula37ad, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Caligula37ad

    Caligula37ad Rebelscum

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    Anyone out there think that the twist coming for the Last Jedi that will blow our minds maybe has absolutely nothing to do with finding out who Rey's parents are? As the day draws closer, I keep finding myself thinking that this won't be answered, or if anything more questions will arise. With all of the promotional footage we have seen leading into the film, there is not one single indication that this is a question even developed upon. I think it will be addressed in some way through conversations with Luke but will be left to the next film to finally reveal. I think our big twist for this film will involve Kylo and Snoke.

    The new tv spot with Rey using the force with her hand outstretched in Snoke's throne room adds to this speculation. During that brief tease, you see a praetorian guard lying on the ground, similar sparks in the air to Kylo's outstretched hand tease, and Kylo himself in the room behind Rey when she confronts Snoke. I think how this breaks down is like this.

    Kylo needs to prove his loyalty to Snoke after his failure, and goes to Ahch-to for Snoke to dispatch Luke and bring Rey to Snoke. Through some confrontation on the island Rey either willingly goes with Kylo or is captured and brought before Snoke. Once there Snoke begins to have some sort of conversation with Rey along the lines of Emperor to Luke, a sort of join me for true power speech, maybe even a take Kylo's place at my side kind of speech. Rey refuses and tries to use her powers but ultimately is no match for Snoke. So instead Snoke goes full Emperor with a 'then you will die' motif, and begins to torture her in the way we see in the trailer.

    Kylo, who observes all of this, see's Snoke was willing to cast him aside so easily, finally snaps. He unleashes his anger, and attacks. He kills all of the Praetorian guards, with or without Reys help, and goes for Snoke. He ends up saving Rey, which is where his outstretched hand scene takes place. He either actually kills Snoke and assumes his place as bad ass in chief, or Snoke escapes. With either scenario you have a big twist that involves Snokes betrayal and Kylo's true rise to power, or you have Snoke betrayed by Kylo and joining forces with Rey, without truly turning back to the light as he did it for selfish reasons (anger, power, jealousy).

    If Snoke survives, an even further twist would be that this is what Snoke wanted all along. Darkness rises and light to meet it. He orchestrates the entire event for the sole purpose of Kylo attempting to overthrow him, to finally push him to the point that he goes full darkside and unleashes his true potential, raw untamed power now tempered by Snoke.
     
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  2. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    Totally agree, I think something like this is very possible and I've posted a few similar ideas myself.

    Good post.
     
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  3. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Yep, been saying this for a while.

    If the twist was supposed to be the reveal of Rey’s parents, why would they be so vocal about it being revealed in this film, and be so nonchalant in joking about who she might be related to?
     
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  4. Bimboo

    Bimboo Clone Commander

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    I think it will play out along the lines you described. Personally I don't believe in Kylo Ren redemption and I think that his arc is the dark side version of the hero's journey. He has to clear challenges (killing his father, killing his mother) until he becomes a fully fleshed dark side 'hero'. Of course it's difficult and he has to overcome afterthoughts, compassion in the same way a normal hero has to overcome fear or anger to achieve his goals. And of course, like a standard hero, he has to detach from his mentor : in his case it could mean killing this mentor, in other words killing Snoke.
     
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  5. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

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    Well, here are some potential strong twist:

    • Rey is a Skywalker
    • Snoke is Darth Plagueis and have somehow manipulated the events of the entire Star Wars Saga so far
    • Kylo turns to the light side at the end of TLJ
    • Rey turns to the darkside, joins Kylo
    • Luke turns to the darkside
    • Major character's death (Leia, Luke, Rey, Poe, Finn, Kylo)
    • Vader is ressurected
    • Porgs are not comestible
     
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  6. Caligula37ad

    Caligula37ad Rebelscum

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    Are any of those really twists though? Other than a main character dying, each of these scenarios wouldn't really be much of a surprising twist in TLJ. Rey a skywalker is already hinted at, Kylo going light will never happen because he killed Han (although him turning in the end to save someone and dying himself I find very likely), Rey going dark is really a red herring, she is the hero, Luke going dark would cause a fan revolt, and Plagueis would feel shoehorned I think. Each scenario could happen, but wouldn't really shock the viewer. Snoke dying and Kylo taking his place I think is unexpected yet plausible. Everyone has all along assumed he would be the big baddie to take down and save the galaxy come Ep IX, just like the Emperor, but what if it's really Kylo. That journey sounds for interesting to me.
     
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  7. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    I think an interesting twist would still be having Kylo team up with Rey to defeat the Praetorian Guards after being ordered by Snoke to kill Rey, but Ben knows that it will be hard for him to find forgiveness, and the film closes with him literally in the “grey”: he’s left the First Order, but hasn’t joined the Resistance, and has a lot to figure out.

    So, he learns more about his grandfather. I think that learning he was a slave at one point would be very eye-opening for him, specifically (and put a bandage over what I think was a poorly handled case of slavery in the GFFA).
     
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  8. Caligula37ad

    Caligula37ad Rebelscum

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    I think we could be seeing a setup for IX where Kylo now runs the First Order, he is keeping Rey captive while she tries to make him see the light and he tries to show that they could rule the galaxy together, each trying to turn one another to the other side. I think I'd be happy with TLJ if this is the route they take. Snoke to me is not a character that needs explaining, just like the Emperor didn't. All you needed to know was he was the man behind the curtain. Killing him off would also open up options for a new trilogy that continues beyond IX to discover where he really came from.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2017 ---
    I can see this happening and wouldn't be against it, but I think solely for the fact that he killed Han that the fanbase of SW would except nothing less that Kylo to also die in the end. Killing younglings is one thing, but Han Solo...
     
  9. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    It’s certainly possible. I mean, he could learn that his grandfather was a slave and just stop idolising him, and instead want to be more powerful as a result (like with Anakin in AOTC).

    However, with regards to him killing Han, whilst I get where you’re coming from, I think Han had a pretty good idea of where things were going when he stepped out onto that rail-free gangway (because seriously, what was up with that not having any rails?).

    The thing is, Han died thinking that he might have at least sparked a turn back to the light side for his son, and it works: Ben immediately feels conflict and regret when he kills his father. I would argue that it would be worse for nothing to come about as a result of this, such as him taking the redemption arc, because, well, Han would have then died for nothing.

    I’m sure that he’ll be getting his comeuppance, but I don’t think that it’s important that the audience forgive Ben/Kylo; I think that it’s infinitely more important that the audience know that what Ben did in killing Han was absolutely wrong, and condemn him for it, but also trust in the ability of people changing.
     
  10. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I don't think there will be any real big twists. Just some reveals and surprises about character.
     
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  11. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    While I haven't yet seen how Rey would actually have it in her to turn dark. It would be a big twist to see it play out polar opposite of ESB. There, Vader wanted Luke to join in killing the emperor and and ruling the galaxy as Father and Son. Luke resisted, Vader was redeemed. TLJ would go the other way. As you say, Kylo could see Snoke is willing to toss him aside for Rey. So he goes on a killing spree (with Rey obviously joining in) then he holds out his hand asking Rey to join him. Whether she does or not is a different story. She is a very compassionate person and I don't know what could happen for her to change that to join Kylo.
     
  12. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I don't necessarily think this is a twist but I think it would be something nobody sees coming. Most are assuming that Rey's parentage is going to be revealed by someone like Luke, Kyle or Snoke. What if her parentage is revealed by Rey herself?
     
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  13. Darth Khel

    Darth Khel Clone

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    I would love to see that scene play out. I think seeing Kylo and Rey team up could be really cool. I'm just wondering if Kylo would really turn to help Rey. Why not go after her in jealousy over the fact that Snoke would prefer Rey to himself? (Since Kylo has been nothing but loyal to Snoke) He could just as easily take his anger out on her, if he can't take Snoke out. In rage, Kylo might as well see this as an opportunity to take Rey out in a weakened state, removing her from the picture all together.

    Although it really depends on what his motives are at this point in the movie and whether he's still feeling that internal conflict.
     
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  14. Galaxy '77

    Galaxy '77 Rebelscum

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    I think there is a strong chance that we are going to see Kylo Ren and Rey team up together/fight along side each other. In the behind the scenes sizzle reel for The Last Jedi we get a glimpse of Daisy and Adam training and rehearsing
    Star-Wars-Episode-VIII-The-Last-Jedi-Daisy-Ridley-Rey-lightsaber.jpg Star-Wars-Episode-VIII-The-Last-Jedi-Adam-Driver-(Kylo-Ren)-lightsaber.jpg hwziiszciwpivgothqxw.png
    Some people speculate that these shots are actually Rey and Kylo fighting off the Praetorian Guard together. There alliance would be a great twist if this speculation is true.
     
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  15. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    I hope you are right. It would be interresting to watch how Kylo finds his place in all this beside stereotypes (outside the FO), seeking for his own path. Same for Rey.
     
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  16. The Next Skywalker

    The Next Skywalker Rebel General

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    It's complicated. I like that.
     
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  17. Bimboo

    Bimboo Clone Commander

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    The more I think about it, the more I find it plausible that Kylo and Rey will try to kill Snoke and team up against the Praetorian guards. But for different reasons : Rey because she wants to 'save the Galaxy' and Kylo Ren because he feels betrayed by Snoke.

    If he kills Snoke, what is exactly Kylo Ren : an ally or an enemy ?
    That's where I would expect Kylo Ren to extend his hand to Rey, pleading that he is in the best position to understand her, pleading for his cause to restore order for the Galaxy and ask her to join him. I believe that he is deeply convinced that all he has done is for the good of the Galaxy and Rey would have to ponder this messy, grey and complicated offer.

    I would expect her to turn him down.

    I like that too.
     
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  18. The3Highlander

    The3Highlander Rebel Commander

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    I hope we end up with Rey and Kylo in the grey. Just because Star Wars has always been very clear about who are the good and who are the bad guys.
    (We have seen that the rebellion isnt all good in R1). I think i would really enjoy seeing something in the middle ground because it is more realistic.
     
  19. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    I’ve been giving this a bit more thought.

    The best twists, in my opinion, come from an elaboration which reveals X and Y are actually the same thing all along, even though X and Y were considered binary opposites beforehand. Of course, the best example of this comes in the case of Star Wars, in The Empire Strikes Back.

    In A New Hope, Luke learns from Ben Kenobi that his father was not in fact a navigator on a spice freighter, but rather a Jedi Knight, who was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader. This paints Vader as a murderous villain, and the way that Ben speaks in admiration of Luke’s father paints Anakin as nothing less than a hero: Vader is evil, and Anakin is good.

    A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all
    but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.


    The reason that I think that the twist in The Empire Strikes Back is recognised as being an influential and great plot twist is because the reveal of Darth Vader (evil) being Luke’s father Anakin (good) blurs the lines between what are believed to be two incompatible truths, or binary opposites. It’s no surprise, then, that this twist was so surprising to Western culture especially, where growing up things are often painted as being binary opposites (good and evil, etc.). This reveal tested not only Luke’s resolve, but the audience’s too, to the point where many questioned whether or not Vader was even telling the truth.

    It gave Vader a third dimension: he was a good character who had become, by all means, an evil one. It made us question what we already knew about Luke and Vader.

    But how can this be applied to the sequel trilogy?

    Well, I think the problem with Rey’s parents being this sort of major twist - besides the obvious way in which they’ve talked about how this will be revealed in the film, thus rendering it pointless as a twist - is that we know nothing about them. We haven’t been told that they’re good or bad people in the same way that Vader was so obviously painted to be bad, and so attempting to pull off a twist here seems pretty feeble, at least to me.

    For that reason, and given how few times things are painted as black and white in The Force Awakens, I think that it has to do with what Han tells Finn and Rey (as well as us, the audience) about what happened with Luke Skywalker.

    He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything.

    To break this down: Luke (good) was training a new generation of Jedi (good), before one boy betrayed Luke and destroyed it all (bad).

    Sounds like a near carbon copy of Ben Kenobi’s dialogue, right? Well, no, not exactly, because Han literally spells out for us something which was only implied in the case of Ben Kenobi: Luke felt responsible for the destruction of the new generation of Jedi which he had been training.

    Sure, we’ve all assumed up until this point that Luke and his academy were the victims, but what if Luke did something which drove Ben away? It would be a case of Luke doing a bad thing, which would brings us back to the morally grey and the blurring of binary opposites. Likewise, what if Ben carried out an evil act, such as killing his fellow pupils, for something which could be considered a just cause?
     
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Honestly, I wouldn't mind if TLJ ends with Kylo and Rey defeating Snoke, and basically fulfilling what Vader had wanted with Luke.

    With Kylo and Rey leading the FO, we have strong potential in EPIX in 2019.

    First, obviously we could have a redemption story for both Kylo and Rey, which could also include interesting interactions with other characters like Poe, Finn, and Luke.

    Second, we could finally see the FO/Imperial Remnant work in tandem with the Alliance/Resistance, just in time for a larger external threat to emerge- after all, maybe Snoke's identity isn't linked to something we've seen before, but something that is to come (and avenge him).
     
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