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Unpopular Opinions- Most Unfairly Hated Scenes and Elements

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by cawatrooper, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Star Wars fans are infamous for tearing apart things that they don't like about the series- but sometimes, maybe those things, while not necessarily perfect, don't deserve nearly the hate they get. What do you think are some of the most unfairly hated parts of the franchise?

    Just some ideas to get started- and remember, these are just my opinion. Please, feel free to discuss these with me, and absolutely add your own. I really don't want anyone to get into any heated arguments here, and I want to emphasize that the point of this thread is discussion. Even if you hold views that may be more "on the bandwagon", an original perspective on it may lend some new breath into these discussions.

    Ewoks- A lot of people criticize the Ewoks, stating that creatures of their size shouldn't be able to take on stormtroopers. To be fair, it should be noted that ROTJ really doesn't shy away from showing a lot of Ewok devastation, too. Sure, there are some kinda silly parts, but I think there's some pretty bandwagon hate for these little guys.

    Jake Lloyd- Was he a great actor? No. But keep in mind, he was like 8 or 9 when filming. Plus, it's a significant challenge for an actor to make Lucas lines sound natural, and the writing for young Anakin certainly wasn't particularly well done. I'm definitely not saying that Anakin was a great character in TPM- just that a young child probably isn't to blame.

    The Phantom Menace- Speaking of which, the entire first movie in general. I think it was a decent stand alone flick that showed a galaxy before its fall.

    Vader's "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"- Lazy writing? Check. Cheesey? Check. Look, I can hardly defend this one, other than to say that I think the fan response to it is simply out of proportion.

    The common reliance on Technological Terrors- The Death Star worked pretty well for the first movie, and ever since then, tech terrors have been common in the series. We have a second death star in ROTJ, Starkiller Base in TFA, the first Death Star again in Rogue One, and an interesting spin on the formula with the droid control station in TPM. The thing is, I think most of these films treat their tech terrors differently enough that it's not really become a problem yet. The Death Star in ROTJ was more or less simply a narrative tool to force the Rebels into a final all out assault. It's essentially the backdrop for the much larger conflict that we see in the film. Starkiller Base is part of TFA which is clearly an homage to ANH (discussed below), so of course there will be similarities there! Rogue One deals with the first Death Star, and has similar stakes, but the actual conflict with the Death Star is far less direct than ANH- once again it's more of a backdrop for a larger conflict (admittedly revolving around the Death Star plans, rather than the Death Star itself). Finally, I don't even know if the droid control station even counts as a tech terror, but it's clearly different from the rest of the pack (as long as you don't count The Avengers totally doing it again).

    TFA ANH similarities- Clearly this was intentional. Rather than smugly pointing out similarities as if those observations were anywhere near original, I think the true discussion should simply be "Did making an homage-film like accomplish what it was meant to, and do we think it ended up being a positive experience"? Because, while there are similarities, TFA does still tell its own story, and we as fans simply need to decide what is most important.
     
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  2. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    Great thread idea @cawatrooper

    The biggie for me is the awful way that Hayden has been spoken about all these years.

    I have to admit that i was a little tearful when he made an appearence at celebration.

    He had crap dialogue, and if somone as experienced as liam neeson still had to spit out those crap lines..what chance did hayden have as lead?

    A part of me would like to see him back as a force ghost with some great lines.. the other part of me thinks he is better off not bothering as ppl would probably pan him regardless now.
     
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  3. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

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    There are just too many things people like to tear apart but just to continue with your cool post here's a few things that bug me. SW fans tend to be some of the most picky people when it comes to it and I think they were just too hard on Lucas when he gave them many of the very things they asked for. First of all, George Lucas said from the very start that the reason he made episodes 4,5 and 6 instead of doing 1,2 and 3 was because he himself thought that these were the best chapters from the story yet fans argued and pleaded cause they wanted to see them anyway and when George finally delivered all he got was hate, trolling and bashing.

    Vader and Boba Fett are another issue. They were mysterious characters that we loved yet knew almost nothing of and fans kept bragging about wanting to know more about them. Lucas pleased fans and gave them what they wanted and you know perfectly well how fans reacted.

    Another thing just like you mentioned is how acters do their job. Come on now! You are going to complain about a little kid not knowing how to act? Please! Back in the OT days, fans where not like that and they weren't such trolls and haters yet these days everybody seems to think of themselves as film critics and intellectuals. I NEVER EVER heard anybody back in the day say they didn't like a SW movie because of bad acting or because of a bad script! So many people saying they know better and they would have done a better job yet I have observed Earth and it's people on Frieza's orders and I have found out that many of these critics are just basement dwelling trolls without a life who do nothing yet always want to tell others that they could have done a better job. Why these award winning people aren't in hollywood writting script, scouting for talent or directing movies is anyones guess.
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I was right there with ya. It was great to see that after everything, he was still willing to show up. Same can't be said for many of the prequel actors, and other than Lloyd I think he might have gotten it the hardest.

    As much as I'm not crazy about the prequels, I see it this way- who am I to complain about more Star Wars? :p
    Heck, even the Ewok movies are fine, in my opinion. I've never watched them, but if it's something that'll make some kids interested in the franchise, I say welcome our new brothers in the Force!
     
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  5. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    Agree, the writing for Anakin in TPM was not very good. Also, a large part of the blame falls on Lucas directing. That's why his most successful films are the ones where he wrote and/or produced, but had someone else direct. It's a big difference between him and Spielberg. Spielberg can get very good to great performances from child actors. Lucas? ... not so much.
     
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  6. Darth Brooks

    Darth Brooks Rebel General

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    Agreed. None of the actors really got much of a chance with Anakin. Even in the Clone Wars when he's written by someone else, the character is still confined by the motivations and character arc set up by Lucas, which are for the most part pretty stupid. While the actors were not without fault, they were definitely in some unwinnable situations. Ewan did a great job given the circumstances, but there are plenty of really corny Obi Wan moments in there.

    Personally I think TPM as a whole gets a bit more hate than it deserves. Don't get me wrong, it's a bad movie...but in comparison to 2 and 3, I think it's my favorite of the three. Episode 2 is IMO the worst, with the ending battle scene being the only redeeming moment, and although most people say 3 is the best PT movie to me it's just too much of a mess, and contains some of the worst moments of the saga. TPM on the other hand has some great action in the podrace and the end battle, some really interesting visual designs, and has f---ing Liam Neesons. Overall it's a weak movie but it's at least lighthearted and fun. I think the massive amount of hate for Jar Jar and Anakin overshadows some of this.

    That's exactly my attitude these days towards all the new content. I'm sure some of it will fall flat but if you told 12 old me that one day we'd get a Star Wars movie every year, I would be overjoyed. The special edition or the PT didn't "ruin" Star Wars for me. I feel like, does it have spaceships and light sabers? Ok cool, then sign me up.
     
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  7. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I hated it when Han called Leia "sister". . . twice in "A New Hope".
     
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  8. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Haha, never thought of it that way.

    Excellent accidental anti-foreshadowing.
     
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  9. Pernicious-Jawa

    Pernicious-Jawa Rebelscum

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    There were many elements of Episode Two I enjoyed as a kid. I haven't watched it in years, so can't say how it holds up. However, I do remember loving the insight into Coruscant's seedy underworld, as well Obi Wan's noire/detective narrative. There are some hideous moments, sand...'nuff said, but, I think there are some really interesting segments as well.

    AOTC seems more ingrained in my mind than TPM. Whether that means the hate it gets is undeserved, I'm not sure.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I wonder if the prequels were written today (perhaps by someone other than Lucas) if the political intrigue might be far more popular- think the popularity of shows like House of Cards, Game of Thrones, Westworld, etc. People eat that stuff up now, and what many regard as the "boring" parts of the trilogy could actually be viewed in a much more positive light now.

    After all, the Plagueis scene has gotten a ton of favorable support lately, and I think it is because that scene was written a little better and is reminiscent of a more modern take on the dark political drama. It was actually pretty ahead of its time.
     
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  11. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    I think Jar Jar gets a bad rap. Kids adored him. He wasn't meant for early 20s me when TPM came out. Watching the movie now, TPM holds up much better than you'd think. I actually enjoy it more than AOTC and ROTS. To me, its Rogue One before Rogue One. Meaning, in many ways, you don't need it to tell Anakin's story - since the movie isn't really about him at all. But it enhances Anakin's story. If TPM came out today and it was a prequel to the Saga, people would love it. But since its one of the Saga films, its held up to an impossible standard.
     
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  12. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Totally.
    Ultimately, Star Wars is for the kids. Doesn't mean it's a kids movie, because really anyone can enjoy it. But, as a seven year old when the film came out, I definitely liked Jar Jar (back then, at least). Same goes for ewoks, too. As an adult fan, you really just have to accept the good and the bad, and hope the sum is still positive.

    As far as TPM goes- glad I'm not the only one! I think it's a nice little stand-alone story. It doesn't benefit from the payoff of ROTS, but it also isn't bogged down in as much setup as AOTC. I'm hardly the first person to say this on here, but it's a nice glimpse into life in the Galaxy before Palpatine's schemes really started gaining full traction.
     
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  13. Pernicious-Jawa

    Pernicious-Jawa Rebelscum

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    Yeah, the climate for that kind of stuff now is unreal. Absolutely, reading the Plagueis novel enhanced those political aspects for me as well. Many memorable political moments again, Padme's quote for example, 'So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause'. Perhaps if they expanded on how the seeds of the rebellion were sown as well, as they did in the deleted scenes, there may have been more success ( as it would've linked back to that sacred nostaaalgia).
     
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  14. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I find the opinion that STAR WARS is basically for kids a load of bull. Even when Lucas claimed the same thing, I found this opinion rather ridiculous. Despite the Velveeta Cheese dialogue and heavy emphasis on action, the story themes and characterizations in the saga makes it more than just for kids. I enjoyed it as a kid, but I truly understood Lucas' storytelling (especially in the first six films) when I became an adult. It's a lot more sophisticated that many people are willing to admit.



    I'm curious. Why was Anakin's motivation for giving in to evil stupid? Because he did it for love and fear of loss? People have committed a great deal of evil in the name of love. And they've done good in the name of love. Are we supposed to believe that only good can be done in the name of love? Did many fans expect Anakin to behave like some one-dimensional delinquent or something? Considering some of the past comments I have encountered, it sounds like it.
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Sure, absolutely. It's for adults. But it's also for kids, as I said.

    You can have heavier moments, like Luke fighting Vader in front of Palpatine. But it's okay to throw in some ewoks for the kids, too. After all, a lot of those kids who get hooked on some of the more kid friendly elements will likely grow up to be adult fans someday, too.
     
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  16. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    I agree very much with this. Sure, the general idea of Star Wars might have come from the concept of young people maturing and defeating evil, but TESB and ROTS particularly are rather heavy "kids movies." When I was a kid, a lot of the story and its subtleties were lost on me, to be honest.
     
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  17. BespinMinersUnion1138

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    The kids that saw TESB and ROTS were older than when they first watched ANH and TPM respectively. Being for the kids doesn't make it a "kids movie." The ideas of good vs. evil is in many ways an elementary (not school) way of thinking. The themes of Star Wars are broad and big, making them easy for kids to recognize and understand. There is humor intended for kids (C-3PO, R2, Ewoks, Jar Jar, BB-8) and there is also humor intended for adults. Fan boys that scream about Jar Jar don't understand that Jar Jar is not only an archetype, but he is also pure innocence. He's an alien just trying to do the right thing but ostracized because he was clumsy. Many kids can relate to that. Adults could too...if they stopped for a minute and just looked at the character himself. Do I think the poop jokes and fart jokes are stupid? Sure. But I was in my 20s when TPM came out. If I was a kid, I would have loved them. But I'm not going to diminish the character as useless just because I don't find him funny. He served a story and thematic purpose.
     
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  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    just some observations:

    Star Wars seems deliberately designed to appeal to a wide range in terms of audience.
    (despite its PG-13 rating, i saw many many children at the theatre watching TFA and loving it).
    having seen the OT as a kid, there was nothing about it that was truly over my head;
    yes, i didn't think twice about Leia in a slave bikini, but the themes and characters and concepts were all very cleanly delineated.
    i would say TFA has that same quality and i suspect the rest of the ST will as well.

    what's more, Star Wars is still about children (perhaps even more so than it ever was in some ways).
    children who have grown up (or are in the process of doing so) perhaps, but there is a very heavy thematic emphasis on childhood and adult formation throughout.
     
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  19. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    I think TFA gets undeserved criticism for apparently being too much like Star Wars. The more I watch it the more I realize how original it really is. Yeah meybe too many memberberries and the starkiller base but I don't think it's a total rehash.
    Btw Ewoks are awesome.
     
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  20. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    There are ewok movies?? Good lord!
    Do these movies ever mention that ewoks eat people?
     
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