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Vader- key to rogue one or just a marketing gimmick

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by FallenAngel, Aug 12, 2016.

?

Vader - whats your take

  1. Small but significant role

    81.7%
  2. Meaningless role

    2.8%
  3. Large role

    4.2%
  4. Purely a markting gimmick

    11.3%
  1. They Live

    They Live Clone Trooper

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    Fans came in droves to watch Episode 7 because of the hype and prospect of seeing the big three reunited. They didn't come for the new characters who all wound up being disappointments. And interest in the new characters was paramount for the future success of the Sequal Trilogy.

    So granted, TFA did make a lot of money, but moving forward is going to be difficult for the franchise....because the new big three failed to capture the hearts and minds of the fanbase the way the OT big three did.

    And since Han is dead, and Luke did absolutely nothing in the first film.....the interest level for old school fans for Episode 8 is going to be markedly subdued relative to the TFA....which ten years from now, I can almost guarantee will be looked back on as a kind of one hit wonder within the context of Star Wars post George Lucas.

    I do think Being John Malkovich is one of the greatest films ever made, so this much we can agree on.
     
    #41 They Live, Aug 20, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
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  2. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

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    That is definitely clouded. I think you're allowing your own feelings for the movie cloud your judgement. The new big three were probably the best thing about TFA. Those guys are superstars now because of that movie. That didn't happen with the prequel cast. This old OT fan for one, loved Daisy, John and Oscar. My only misgiving about the movie was the whole Starkiller base thing.
     
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  3. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Please, this old school fan is dying to see Episode VIII BECAUSE Luke did nothing in VII and now is his turn. And, Daisy, John, Oscar AND Adam - failed? They were essence of charm, humor, naivety, heart and, in Adam's case, crazy that I cannot wait to see more from them. Will VIII be as financially successful as TFA? Probably not, because TFA was in unique position as the first Star Wars movie in a decade. But, it has all the ingredients to be as loved if not more than TFA: Rian Johnson who is freed of some of the constraints JJ had, the Big Four - as I call them, Luke Skywalker, Benicio Del Toro, Kelly Marie Tran, Laura Dern and so much more.
     
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Vader sees dead people.jpg
    If THIS version of Darth Vader shows up in SWR1,
    [​IMG]
    then WE are all in for a treat.​
     
    #44 Lord of the Rens, Aug 23, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  5. quickfire4372

    quickfire4372 Clone Commander

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    I feel Vader will be nothing but an "emperor" type figure for Director Krennic to report to as Vader did to Sheev in Empire Strikes Back.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2016 ---
    That being said, he will be only a marketing tool.
     
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  6. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Vador Burger.jpg
    "As you wish...."

    ;)
     
    #46 Lord of the Rens, Aug 23, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  7. quickfire4372

    quickfire4372 Clone Commander

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    Haha right. That black bun looks gross.
     
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  8. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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  9. quickfire4372

    quickfire4372 Clone Commander

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  10. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Disagree, you don't bring Vader back, only to have him in such a minor role. Kathleen Kennedy said his role is small but powerful in the film, how is bossing people around meant to excite people? The director already fills that role. No, If we're to have Vader, the fans need to see something new. They need to show us a powerful Vader in his prime :).
     
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  11. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    You mean, as opposed to his declining years, which began about five minutes after the events of Rogue One? ;)

    Other than going for a cheap fan-gasm thrill, I just don't see any rationale for showing Vader somersaulting around slashing at people with his lightsaber in this particular story. Lurking there offscreen in the shadows of the film as a life-or-death motivation for Krennic (and then emerging onscreen as the instrument of Krennic's eventual demise), sure. That makes perfect sense given what we know about the story.

    But in a movie with no Jedi, how would showing Vader hacking away at non Force users like a barrel of fish be any demonstration of him in his prime?
     
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  12. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Vader doesn't somersault :p, and as far as I'm aware Tarkin would logically be in charge of Krennic, not Vader.
     
  13. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    The governor of the Outer Rim territories who eventually commanded the operational Death Star would logically be in charge of the director of the Imperial military's Advanced Weapons Research division? That's just a wee bit like saying that the captain of an aircraft carrier would be in charge of the R&D team that designed it, or of the head of the shipyard where the carrier was built.

    Who does the Emperor usually send to deal with those who have failed him on a high-priority mission? Pretty sure it's that fellow in the stylish iron lung. ;)
     
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  14. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    You misunderstand. Grand Moff Tarkin is both overseer of the Death Star and governor of his region. He is the ultimate power in the area, unless overruled by the Emperor. Remember back to A New Hope where he's having the meeting with the ISB council, he is clearly presented as the dominant figure and instructor in the room. The ISB are nothing but agents who work for the Empire. Why do you think Vader releases that guy when asked? Vader's rank is in flux, as his overall status is determined by the Emperor.

    Tarkin is the overseer of the Death Star. It would make perfect sense for him to pay attention to an attempted theft of the plans.
     
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  15. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    Which is, of course, why at the beginning of ANH, we see Tarkin boarding Princess Leia's ship rather than Vader. (Oh, wait a second...)
     
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  16. GingerByte

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    No, because he sent Vader, the Imperial enforcer, after them. Unlike Tantive IV, the Death Star is orbiting the very planet the Rebels are on. Vader is in charge of the Imperial garrisons, not security and management.
     
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  17. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    It wouldn't. Unless he takes on a couple of Rebel gunships all by himself, I really hope he doesn't use his light saber. I want to see the Sorcerer; who force chokes faithless militants, unleash dark-side hell upon the Rebels with reckless abandon. THAT, would be an uber-geeky, badass action sequence for the ages but what do I know? I'm old & crusty.... I'm guessing most younglings these days want to see him go to town with his laser sword.
     
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  18. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    That seems to be the consensus among a lot of fans, sadly. It'd be completely out of place in a movie like this, and it also wouldn't really dovetail with what we see of Vader in ANH. (Was he hacking and slashing his way through the Princess' ship the way a lot of fans want to see him hacking and slashing his way through a similar situation in Rogue One?)
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2016 ---
    Where are you getting this? Vader is the Emperor's hit man, and always has been. He doesn't hold any military rank, and from everything we've seen he exists outside of the military chain of command. He's basically in charge of whatever the Emperor needs him to be in charge of. In ROTJ, Death Star II wasn't being built quickly enough, so the Emperor sent Vader to put a scare into Jerjerrod and company.

    The man in charge of the development and construction of the first Death Star manages to lose the blueprints to Rebel spies... who is the Emperor going to send to deal with that man's failure? The same guy he always sends.
     
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  19. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    There are plenty of Rebel soldiers in this film, depending on how he's used, how long before his forcefield is overloaded and his armour starts to take damage if all he uses is the force? Seriously, you don't bother bringing in a character as important as Darth Vader unless he plays an important part in the film. There are already governors and directors that fill the commanding role. This means that Vader would be brought in to fill a completely separate one.

    Remember, the rumours that they wanted to show us a Vader from the perspective of a foot soldier? Powerful and unstoppable.
    The novel Tarkin expressively asys that Tarkin is considered to be a 'friend' of the Emperor. Vader and Tarkin also have a partnership going all the way back to the Clone Wars. Tarkin earns the Emperor's trust enough that he is promoted from Admiral to Grand Moff straight away. He is loyal to the Empire to a fault. Vader would not be sent to boss Tarkin around but to assist him in his matters.

    I just said that about Vader being in charge of whatever the Emperor wants. The Emperor has more faith in Tarkin though, as he has proven to be one of the most intellectual and practical tacticians in the Empire. Vader whilst assigned to stuff, is still at the end of the day a Sith, and betrayal is in his nature. This is why Vader never outranks Tarkin.

    And yes, Vader is ranked. Remember, he was demoted below that guy from the Death Star?
     
  20. Anasa

    Anasa Rebelscum

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    I know that many people want Vader to come slashing and hacking, but I see a disconnection here: I'm currently reading Lords of the Sith and having also read the Darth Vader comic series, I see that the image of Vader is quite different from what we've seen in ANH.

    On the one hand, in the movie proper, he sent the Stormtroopers first and didn't enter the battlefield only after the Imperials had taken over the ship: he didn't dirty his hands at all. He sat back and watched. He went after Obi-wan because he had personal history with him and didn't join the battle otherwise at all. It was only at the end of ANH where he joined the battle and even then, he did it after he saw the the Rebels were being successful.

    On the other hand, going into the beginning of the novel LotS and the DV comics, the guy there prefers to take matters into his own hands, leaving the troops behind to clean up and inspect instead. He's a one-man army that goes into the front lines, because at this point in his creation, Anakin Skywalker had a peronality: hot-headed, reckless and acting on instinct and thinking-on-the-spot and not logic or careful planning (which Vader starting doing, but gradually; he's still pants-on-fire in the frontlines).

    But, Anakin's personality didn't exist whatsoever back when ANH was being created (all we knew about Anakin was that he was the best pilot of the Old Republic and a good friend of Obi-wan's), so there's a disagreement of portrayals for Vader between the new canon materials and the old (not counting the EU). Which vader should be shown in RO? The one in ANH, so that we have a smooth transition and a stable connection with the movie that precedes it? Or, a daring, willing to get in the first lines of battle Vader that comes from the novels and the comics?

    Personally, I want the first one. What is more, many people know about ANH, but only more hardcore fans know the novels and the books. And LF/Disney count on the average movie fan to get the big money for their movies, and not just the fans of SW specifically.

    That's why I want mostly a smooth style and a hovering danger as Vader's presence in RO, rather than a tank that flattens opposition. Not because "ZOMG, THEY WATERED IT DOWN FOR THE KIDDIES!". After all, we had friggin' patricide in TFA. As far as traumatic scenes go, this one's up there.

    Last but not least, there's a misunderstanding here: the Vader we see in the beginning on ANH is maybe one day older than the Vader we'll see in RO. So, what "prime"? It's a maximum 24-hour difference.

    I blame Collider Jedi Council and the various clickbait articles online for this "Vader in his prime!" fallacy.
     
    #60 Anasa, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
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