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Vader- key to rogue one or just a marketing gimmick

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by FallenAngel, Aug 12, 2016.

?

Vader - whats your take

  1. Small but significant role

    81.7%
  2. Meaningless role

    2.8%
  3. Large role

    4.2%
  4. Purely a markting gimmick

    11.3%
  1. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    And here you are yet again, touting your opinion as if it is fact, and everyone must accept it.

    Fans didn't flock to TFA to see new characters? Well you said it so it must be true.

    The new characters were all failures that didn't capture the hearts of fans? Wow I didn't realize that. But again, YOU said it.....so it must be true.

    We get it. You think TFA was trash. You think J.J. Abrams is worse than Hitler. You think every aspect of ST so far is a personal insult against youself, and that we must all join you in your hate. You try to turn threads on all kinds of topics into "10 reason why I hate TFA and you should too!"

    You're entitled to your opinion, but gosh your troll/spam game is strong.
     
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  2. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    It's not just the hardcore fans though: Darth Vader has been in many video games and recently Star Wars: Rebels as well. Everyone knows he has a lightsaber, and plenty of people want to see him use it against opposition aside from Jedi.

    Have you read the Vader Down story-arc? That is the type of Vader I'm hoping to see in Rogue One.

    As I said before, there are rumours and Vader's role is small but important. This most likely means he will turn up halfway through the film, and will not enter the fray until near the end in an effort to clean up the mess and prevent the transmission of the data schematics.
     
  3. Anasa

    Anasa Rebelscum

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    I'm talking about the average movie-goer, the one who won't bother about Star Wars beyond what the movies give him. They consist the bulk of the franchise's income in the box office. Kiddies and their toys come second and kiddies had Vader in the cartoon Rebels to know. Not exactly the Vader Down (yes, I've read the series and I've referenced it in many times in these forums) portrayal, which would be downright scary in Rebels (even though I could see it in Clone Wars).


    If he turns up halfway through the film and stays around, he gets main antagonist status, which belongs to Krennic. Remember, Kylo had only 18 minutes of screentime in the 138-minute TFA. Vader ought to have as much as the Joker in Suicide Squad to be a "small but significant role" (but with more significance than in SS...:p), which was around 5 to 8 minutes.

    EDIT: Why on Earth did it show that I had double-posted? :confused:
     
    #63 Anasa, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
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  4. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    No, I meant he shows up then, but doesn't really do anything until the end of the third act. You just see him a few times in a control room.
     
  5. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    OK guys, let me cite Kiri Heart, Lucasfim’s chief of story development, on Vader:
    “Vader doesn’t really play by the rules – He’s present in the military structure, but he’s not beholden to it. He’s not accountable to anybody, really, except Palpatine.”

    “When Tarkin says to Vader to ‘release him’ when he’s choking that guy, Vader does it, but not because he has to. He’s just willing to give Tarkin one in that moment”

    And from Gareth Edwards:
    “Within the Empire, there is the culture of knowing of the existence of Darth Vader. There’s definitely an underlying feeling that there is a power – a dark power – available to the Empire and that if you overstep your mark, you will suffer the consequences.”



    John Knoll, producer, on Krennic vs. Vader:
    “There is a lot of palace intrigue going on in the Empire, with people conspiring to move up the ranks and sabotaging each other. There’s not a lot of loyalty there.” In other words, Krennic and Vader aren’t friends. They’re barely allies, and Krennic is understandably threatened by the Sith Lord. That’s what Krennic is trying to figure out, too: How can he acquire that most-favored status? What is it between the Emperor and Vader that binds them? Krennic is left with a lot of motivation to quash this Rebel strike force and keep the Empire’s Death Star plans from going awry. He can feel Vader’s mechanical breath on his neck.


    Kathleen Kennedy says Rogue One has to make careful use of Vader. “He will be in the movie sparingly,” she says. “But at a key, strategic moment, he’s going to loom large.”

    Vader is the muscle. The fixer. And also… the breaker, when he needs to be.

    Or just remember the full article and read it in correct order: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/23/darth-vader-rogue-one-star-wars ;)
     
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  6. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    As I said before Tarkin also holds a special status with Palpatine, stretching back to the time of the Republic before the Clone Wars. The influence and power both possess on their respective domains are not as black and white as Kiri Hart is making it sound.
     
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  7. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    ^^THIS, ALL THE WAY^^

    I haven't kept up on all of the new books and comics, but my impression is that they often really don't feel as much like part of the films in terms of story and characters. This is why I've never been sold on this notion of every last scrap of spin-off material being treated as canon. The quality of these things seem to vary pretty wildly, as they always have ever since Splinter of the Mind's Eye back in '78, and IMHO the authors don't always pay enough attention not just to continuity but overall tone.

    Then again, neither did Lucas when he did the prequels, so I guess (to quote David St. Hubbins from Spinal Tap) "That bridge has sailed."

    Still, I see no reason at all to saddle Rogue One with the "EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME VADER!!!!" that the "Yoda-Man" set seems to want. I'd prefer that Edwards put a little more thought into his film than that. The fact of the matter is, Rogue One isn't about Darth Vader. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to make Vader a bigger part of this story than is appropriate. Krennic looks like he could be (and very likely will be) a memorable and popular Star Wars villain in his own right. The last thing I want to see is Krennic being upstaged by hack-and-slash Vader just for the sake of showing hack-and-slash Vader.

    (Actually, truth be told, that's the second to the last thing I want to see - the absolute last thing I want to see is Edwards shaking the damned camera all over the place during the action scenes like so many directors seem obsessed with doing.)
     
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  8. They Live

    They Live Clone Trooper

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    People complained about the prospect of Vader hacking and slashing his way through ROTS prior to it's release and then when the film came out , everyone bemoaned the fact that Vader didn't do enough.

    You can't have it both ways....and frankly, Vader doing Vader type things, ie, strangling Imperial officers, and whacking off limbs, is a helluva lot more interesting than watching him stare at some map while breathing deeply, slowly turning his head, and muttering something about "the Rebels hidden base."
     
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  9. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    People? Who, specifically, were these people of whom you speak? I was around and quite active on TF.N at the time, and I don't recall anything like what you're saying here.

    You do seem to enjoy your straw men, don't you?
     
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  10. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

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    Maaan, you don't know what you're missing. In the new canon we do see Vader hacking and slashing - but only when necessary. In LotS - him and the Emperor and a couple of Imperial Guard are stranded on Ryloth so he has to defend himself and Palpatine. In Vader Down, he's stranded by himself on a planet full of Rebel Alliance troops who are out to kill him. There's no gratuitous violence that doesn't fit in with the character of Vader, The Vader comic and LotS are some of the best non celluloid Star Wars stories you're going to get. In RO I'm fully expecting ass kicking Vader to come in as a last resort when all other attempts to stop the Rebels have failed. I'm predicting this happens sometime between 90 minutes in to 110 minutes based on an estimated 120 minute run time. Before this we'll see him communicating with Krennic.
     
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  11. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    If Rogue One ends on a marketing-driven cheap thrill like that, I probably won't waste my money on a second viewing.
     
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  12. They Live

    They Live Clone Trooper

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    Oh, please....what I said was exactly what took place....pre-ROTS, fans were complaining about Vader "hacking and slashing"....then they saw the film and were upset that Vader in suit essentially did nothing.....and Star Wars after all, isn't Hamlet....it doesn't need to be all deep and blast.

    Keep it simple, keep it fun...that's one of the great things about ANH, aka Star Wars that made it so enjoyable....in terms of complexity, for the GFFA, less is truly more.

    When peeps say they don't want Vader hacking and slashing, what this means is they want to get to know him on a deeper level...which is a huge mistake, as this will undermine his character by revealing too much about him and an air of mystery is a big part of what made Vader such a dynamic and compelling villain in the first place.

    In short, all Vader needs to do to be effective is beat the crap out of people and give orders (see ANH, TESB for further info)....that's it.
     
    #72 They Live, Aug 24, 2016
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  13. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    And this is yet another load of nonsense that you just made up out of thin air.

    Most of the folks I've talked to who don't want Rogue One to turn into a cheap Vader slash-fest feel that doing it that way would take the focus away from main characters like Krennic. And that's certainly my feeling on the matter.

    In other words... less is, in fact, more. Have Vader show up at the very end of the movie and give Krennic's windpipe a good ol' fashioned mind-squeeze for having lost the Death Star plans, and that's all we really need to see of him.
     
  14. They Live

    They Live Clone Trooper

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    Was TESB "cheap"? You can have scenes with Vader being a badass and still have plenty of room for character development.

    Hiding Vader in Rogue One tells me one thing: that Krennic is a weak character who Disney is afraid will get overshadowed. Kind of like Rey with Luke....who's screentime the writers purposely limited to next to nothing because they were worried Luke would steal Rey's thunder.

    With the outcome for most fans being precisely the same as those who wanted to see a more active Vader in ROTS; they were disappointed, which is ironic, because by neutering a central character, this was the very thing the writers had hoped to avoid.

    Now I'm not suggest that Rogue One be about Vader: it shouldn't be, but whatever time he's given, he should be doing Vader type things, and not simply winking and mugging for the camera like Boba Fett in the OT special edition out of some misguided attempt at shielding the protagonist.
     
    #74 They Live, Aug 24, 2016
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  15. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    Vader was the main villain in ESB. In that film, it was appropriate that he play a large, ass-kicking role.

    Also, other than in Luke's cave vision, the only time Vader drew his saber in ESB was during his duel with Luke on Cloud City.

    Try again...
     
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  16. They Live

    They Live Clone Trooper

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    Rogue One takes place just prior to ANH.....Vader is second in command...aside from the Emperor, there is no villain bigger than him.

    So it makes sense that he should play at least some role in hunting down and attacking the rebels, because, this is after all, what he does....

    If Krennic is worth her salt, like Luke was, having Vader be himself in the limited time that we see him onscreen should pose no problem.

    In fact, it might even augment the experience of seeing the movie....I know, the horror, right? ;)
     
  17. 77th

    77th Force Sensitive

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    In my humble opinion: I love Star Wars and Darth Vader is my favorite character in it so of course i like Vader presence in ANY Star Wars Movie but i will always be judgemental over bad writings and worse actings in Star Wars, so Bring On the Big Bad Man 'cause i'll be here to see it.

    PS - @DEKKA129 i have a great book sugestion for you, "Warlord of the Air" by M Moorcock, it concern's Blimps and Time Travel (guess you liked those)
     
  18. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    Thanks, compadre! I've heard of that one before, and have been meaning to track down a copy. I've got an alternate-history airship-related story of my own that I've been working on, and this could be excellent inspirational material.
     
  19. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    THIS x 1000

    Saving Private Ryan was the best of that lot, everything else is rubbish.
     
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  20. JV-24601

    JV-24601 Rebel Official

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    I hope Vader gets employed in a manner similar to the raptors in Jurassic Park: a threat that is established very early on, then is held in the background until the third act, when everything goes to hell.
     
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