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SPECULATION Vader's Cause of Death

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Jordan Of Alderaan, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    So we see Vader/Anakin meet his end in RotJ. Luke has a heated duel with him and cuts his hand off, then he throws electro-Sheev into the abyss and then has a touching face to face with his son.

    When asking Luke to remove his helmet, he states that he will die nonetheless. Was he lying or being cryptic? Did his wounds kill him? Was it Palpatine's lightning (he did catch a bit)? Or was it something else?

    Given Vader's physical state and the preceding events, it could have been any number of things really. What are your thoughts?

    I have personally always considered Palpatine somewhat maintaining Anakin's life after his immolation through the force. Palpatine recognised Anakin's strength and spent a very long time manipulating him to join the dark side, so it would make sense that Palpatine would want to keep him alive to protect his investment.

    As we know from RotS Plageius was capable of stopping others from dying (unless this was Palpatine lying? Not sure where the new canon stands on this) and that "his apprentice" learnt such skills, so it could be that Palpatine is keeping Vader alive and, with his death, Vader dies from his 20 year old wounds.
     
    #1 Jordan Of Alderaan, Jan 24, 2015
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  2. Duke Groundrunner

    Duke Groundrunner Rebel Official

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    Well, seemed pretty dead to me, i mean if he wasn't dead then he sure was after this.
    vader-funeral-pyre-e1408136014851.png

    We are meant to believe his life support got cooked (pun intended) by the lightning so he was dying anyway mask or no mask.
    ncBEP.png

    Note the weak raspy breathing sounds. I think his artifact lung pump or something like that gave out.
     
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  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Maybe his suit was losing power due to the force lightning damage.
     
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  4. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    Like his wife, he died from a broken heart.
    It's like [bad] poetry.

    Just Kidding xD


    I believe it was a combination of tissue damage and his life support system getting fried.
     
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  5. ThePurloinedFowl

    ThePurloinedFowl Rebel Commander

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    Fried circuits, shock, and perhaps cardiac arrhythmia caused by the Force Lightning and perhaps even from being shocked by his own malfunctioning electronics.
     
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  6. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Aside from the obvious reasons, Vader/Anakin died because he finally saw and understood the way...relieved of the burden of hatred, redeemed by his son........the force took him home, and he released himself to it......
     
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  7. Darth Plagueis and Revan

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    I think its because Palpatine is a part of him, and to overthrow him, was knowingly an ultimate sacrifice.

    Darth was who he was because, he knew the other choice led to greater ruin. His "evil" in a sense was always based on the fear of loss.
    He was made to lose so much he became dark, and if he chose the other path he'd lose even more to become dead.

    But at the end, he doesn't DIE, and palpatine can't take his life away because obiwan, showed him the power of light in ANH, and through his turn to the lightside he can escape wrath, by becoming one with the force.

    IMO, his death was just like obiwans. Obiwans death kills Vader, and Vaders death kills Palpatine.


    He dies, because he gives all of his force power TO the force, and no longer can sustain himself through the dark side.


    So in short, his darkness keeps him alive through the movies, so damage to the suit is not the real problem, its that he is cut off from the dark side.
    But not all is lost, for he can unite with the force once more.

    He made that sacrifice, knowing his death. He chose death as one with the force over living under the emperor after he killed his son.

    Deep down, Vader loved his son, its just that he was trying to save him through the dark side in the movie.
    And to save him means putting up a ruse, and following the emperors bidding.


    I don't think luke could ever become Vader, because Vader is dark through LOSS, (sidious basically killed him to turn him) Luke could only be dark through weakness to the Dark side.
    So when Luke is NOT weak, Vader can then TRUST him.

    What you see, is a father trusting his son, knowingly discarding the dark side, and returning to wisdom as obiwan had shown.

    He was saying "right is the way of things", passing the mantle.
    "You saved me from the emperor", because the emperor could not make him LOSE enough to fall utterly to the dark side.

    IMO, Vader is special
    He is TRULY only 99% evil.
    Palpatine is making his final move to remove the last 1%

    Vader is essentially as strong as the emperor when he turns to the light, so they both cancel each other out.

    You could say, Vader's remaining goodness was enough to defeat the emperor, but at the cost of his life.
    And JEDI would willingly accept this.


    So, Vader accepted death as a Jedi, and conquered Sidious' hold on the universe through manipulating him.

    He achieves freedom, from the manipulation of his devine creation.
    Plagueis, if he truly created anakin, MAY have been his father, but in the end VADER was his own man.

    Him dying, is showing his individuality, his freedom from others influencing his destiny.
    And to become himself again, he was willing to die for.

    And Luke, gave him that chance.
     
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  8. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Yes, a deeper explanation to my response. Good job.
     
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  9. Big Daddy Dave

    Big Daddy Dave Rebelscum

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    I think respiratory failure would be the logical cause of death for Darth Vader. The whole point of his suit was that it was needed to keep him alive. It stopped doing that after it got fried.
     
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Indeed Vader knew he would not survive so he took death as his way out of being put on trial for the crimes he committed.
     
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  11. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    That's a really interesting take on it! I'd never really considered the idea of quantified power for every force user (I think my grasp on it has always been more dynamic).

    Given all of the above comments, I would agree that it he most obvious cause would be the force lightning and its effect on Vader's body and suit, but I personally like the idea of Palpatine's death in some way affecting Vader. Vader's tragic life is basically a series of sacrifices and him knowingly ending his own life to save Luke would be a great culmination of the previous sacrifices.
     
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  12. ThePurloinedFowl

    ThePurloinedFowl Rebel Commander

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    I think Palpatine's death affected Vader, but not necessarily in a physical way. I think that Palpatine had exercised constant, steady, insidious mind control (Darth *Sidious*, after all!) over Anakin Skywalker's mind for decades. I believe Vader was aware of it, becoming aware of it after the death of Padme made him realize all that he had done in vain to serve the evil one's ends, and likely he found a way to limit its effects and to keep more of himself hidden from Sheev. Nevertheless, contact with Luke, who was reaching out to his father with his own mind, bathed in the light side of the Force, mitigated the control Sheev held over the former Anakin and allowed him to break free. When finally Vader dispatched his dark master, he felt the full departure of the overwhelming psychic pressure that Sheev had exerted on him for all those years. That might have given him the will finally to let go of his shattered body.
     
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  13. Jordan Of Alderaan

    Jordan Of Alderaan Rebelscum

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    I like that idea of Vader essentially admitting defeat. He lived a life of constant arrogance and he never allowed defeat to be pinned on him (always executing his admirals etc), so for that moment to be his admission of defeat really amplifies his redemption in my opinion! Good stuff!
     
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  14. Darth Lexor Kai

    Darth Lexor Kai General of the Future Folk

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    One thing we know for certain, there is always room for advancement in the Empire because storm troopers are always getting killed, and Vader keeps force choking his executive staff. lol. i say Vader died because of the force lightning damaging his suit and fried his life support.
     
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  15. Darth Plagueis and Revan

    Darth Plagueis and Revan Clone Commander

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    Precisely
    Awesome
     
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  16. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    The stormmtroopers are expendable those blasters shots never miss, Vader force chokes his staff because they always fail him when they say they won't, Vader's fate of being the chosen one was all he had left his son & daughter were the future he could not be a part of.
     
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  17. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I believe it was from a broken heart. Kidding.

    I'm inclined to say that it has more to do with his largely mechanical body and life support functions, which were doubtless fried due to the Dark-side lightning he caught. But I do kind of like your concept of Palpatine playing a part in keeping him alive for decades. It actually would fit well with a theory someone put forward of Palpatine siphoning off the "Living Force" from Padmé in RotS, leading to her dying from unknown causes and Anakin surviving grievous injury, as well as Palpatine being aware of her death.

    And of course, if we decided to take a specifically spiritual route, we could say Anakin had finally come back from the Dark side, and decided not to live any more due to the risk of turning again. Ending on a high note, essentially.
     
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  18. SWToyscapes

    SWToyscapes Rebel Commander

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    I'd also reckon it was Vader's reliance upon circuitry that killed him, although he was also exhausted from dueling with Luke (not sure how a heavy weight like Vader collapsed from Luke's assault unless the sheer intensity of the Dark Side blowing out from Luke bowed Vader). The Emperor seemed to have pumped an equal share of Force-lightning into Luke and Vader but Vader looked to be more susceptible to it - again, bringing his mechanical life-support into the equation.
     
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  19. Darth Plagueis and Revan

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    "Its Ironic, I could manipulate others to their death, but could not save myself" oh classic sheev...

    I think sheev was pretty desperate to kill him though, one can only assume sheev and Vader were in a death lock together, taking each other down.

    One thing is for certain, sheev, really really was not happy getting thrown down that well.
    And can you blame him?
    He spends all this time manipulating it all, gloating, and thinking he has it all figured out and then the next moment is flying towards an energy beam at the bottom of a well.
    Yikes.

    Poor poor sheev.

    I think its much more than that, and Vader says as much in response to Luke "but you'll die" "nothing can stop that now".

    I think its hard to believe his death is necessary in the movie because you start to root for him. I mean, he just lifts up a ball of angry lightning and takes it like a champ. That reveals his true character, a side of himself he was afraid of being, because of Sidious.

    Sidious would always have killed Vader had he not bowed to his will, and I think that is the point. You are meant to understand that the threat to him was real, and that such sacrifice could never be done in vain.

    Luke beats the Emperors hold on Vaders purpose, and Vader unhinges like flying debree, ripping him up like a weed, and burning him in a pit.
    Why?

    Vengeance?
    Nope, love, appreciation, self honesty.

    Vader was already dead, Sidious made sure of that, but he could not subdue the strength of will Vader summoned to make those last moments count.


    Also, Vader was dead already... Losing to Luke.
    Sidious was always going to kill him. Luke just transformed his demise into an opportunity. And Vader was strong enough to GRASP it through the electrical storm.

    I imagine grasping a guy that is going to kill you, is extremely threatening.
    The lashback would be too powerful to survive, but, spiritually he endured.
    Revealling his ability to be vulnerable, and the truth that he was exploited all along, yet he could tracend that exploitation in the end.
     
    #19 Darth Plagueis and Revan, Jan 26, 2015
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  20. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I think Vader knew his existence in the galaxy had come to a end & knew Luke & Leia would make it better for now at least, Luke knew he couldn't save Vader but he tried it was inevitable.
     
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