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Was Luke actually the last Jedi?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Chairman Kaga, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    The reveal last night that Ahsoka was still alive in the years just prior to A New Hope got me to wondering. If she was alive, and Kanan was alive, and Ezra was training, was Luke in fact the last Jedi (other than Yoda of course) at the time of Empire?

    If you read the script, Obi Wan says, "That boy is our last hope," to which Yoda replies, "No. There is another."
    Note they just said Hope, not Last Jedi.

    I think we've assumed that all of the other Jedi were totally 100% killed off. What we're starting to see is there are still Jedi, or at least Jedi-trained Force users, working within the proto-Rebel Alliance. And honestly, given the tone of Rebels, I have serious doubts that Ahsoka or Ezra will be killed. Kanan... maybe. I get the feeling they're still working against the Empire throughout the Galactic Civil War. Maybe not as actively as Luke. Maybe in the shadows. Maybe completely separate from the official Alliance core group of characters.
    And I think that's awesome. There's an entire realm of stories that could be opened up for this new spinoff series of films. An Ahsoka, Kanan, Ezra series. An Ahsoka and Obi Wan adventure. A grown Ezra training his own rogue Jedi.

    Anyway. Just a thought. It's not OT specific, but given the potential for concurrent stories with regard to the timeline, again, I think the possibilities are intriguing.
     
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  2. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

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    I refuse to believe that Luke could have been the last Jedi. They may not call themselves "Jedi" per se, for fear of raising any Imperial notice. There were 100,000+ Jedi Knights running around the galaxy at the time of Order 66? That number probably doesn't take into account padawans and people like Ashokha who left the Order, but still follow the path of the Light Side.

    As strong in the Force as Yoda and Obi Wan were, I doubt that they knew the Order's entire roster by heart. I'll buy that the masters were probably wiped out (although as futile as I know it is--I do hope against hope that Mace somehow survived), but there were bound to be many more like Kanan running around with enough training to call themselves Jedi, and smart enough to keep themselves hidden. Some may've even taken on their own Ezras.

    So by ROTJ, there might even be hundreds or thousands of ronin-Jedi roaming the galaxy by the time of ROTJ. They might not be technically Jedi in the strictest, dogmatic sense (and that strict adherence to dogma led to their downfall anyway), but they may still be following the Light Path, righting wrongs like Caine from Kung Fu.

    (lightsaber)
     
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  3. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    Personally, I'm all for the three of them dying in Rebels. Heroic and meaningful deaths, mind you. I just think it's the easiest way to describe their lack of presence in the OT.

    I do suppose they could've been performing deep undercover stuff, or operating in other areas... but still, it would seem odd that one, possibly even two or three pretty powerful Force users would be absent during the Alliance's biggest moments.

    That said, I really could see it involving them right up until the theft of the Death Star plans, essentially right up to the beginning of ANH. I really hope that is covered in Rebels, and they play a part in it.
     
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  4. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    Oh man how great would a Ronin-style Jedi movie be? I mean, the original Star Wars was originally intended as a space fantasy remake of The Hidden Fortress, so why not continue to hew close to Kurosawa for at least one spinoff film series?

    The Clone Wars had a great arc that was a Seven Samurai homage, if I recall.
     
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  5. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

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    Oh man, that would be so awesome. I know the Seven Samurai plot has been done a million times in different media (like the CW episode you mentioned), but the reason why it works as a samurai flick or a western (The Magnificent Seven is one of my favorite movies in the world--the late Eli Wallach is a fantastic villain, and Yul Brenner has some awesome lines) is because it's a story that just about every culture can relate to in some way or another (salt of the earth-types being taken advantage of by evil lord/bandits are saved and taught to defend themselves by an outnumbered group of noble rogues). Some may say it's an over-used story, but I think it could work as a character study on Jedi post-Order 66. They're still good at the core, but times have been hard, and they're a little rougher around the edges now.

    And fun-fact, John Williams played in the orchestra that recorded The Magnificent Seven's theme:



    And for good measure, one of my Top 10 tracks from my all-time favorite band, The Clash:



    Sorry, got a little off-topic there, but again, I wholeheartedly believe there were some ronin-Jedi hanging around, and I'd watch the hell outta that flick.
     
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  6. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    Other Kurosawa films that I could see being (loosely) adapted for Ronin Jedi...

    Sanjuro (a jaded Kanan story?)
    Kagemusha (that would be a badass Ventress vehicle)

    Oh, and Stray Dog was also adapted into the CW episode where Ahsoka's lightsaber was stolen.
     
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  7. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

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    That's awesome! Kagemusha wasn't even on my radar, so thanks for the good reco on that one! Reading the description, I totally agree that could be an awesome way to bring Ventress back. I also agree with you on Sanjuro. And, of course, a jaded-Jedi Yojimbo (say that three times fast) would be a natural fit.

    Not Kurosawa, but in a similar vein, have you seen any of the blind-swordsman Zatoichi flicks? I haven't, but from what I do know about them, they could be cool Jedi-adaptations.

    And sorry for takin' this thread in a very different direction than you probably intended!
     
    #7 WedgeSalad, Mar 3, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
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  8. Stu Rocket

    Stu Rocket Rebel General

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    I think Obi Wan said Luke was the last hope because ,Luke would be the only one that could get close enough to Vader without getting killed in less than a second.
    As far as more Jedi being alive, I think there are many, just unkown or in hiding.
     
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  9. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I guess the force was not able to reach every inch of the galaxy at the time, so those who were alive were best unfound.
     
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  10. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    So far these statements appear to be due to their limited knowledge of who survived the purges. They know they survived, and they have Anakin's kids. Rebels might and likely will involve Obi-Wan at some point.. but until then they know of no other survivors.

    I'm thinking what's going on here is something akin to the consecrating of bishops within the christian priesthood. Basically, its an unbroken line of individuals dating back to the apostles. This is big deal in the mainline christian denominations, and my thoughts are that Jedi Knighthood is viewed the same way by the Jedi themselves. So from the "Certain point of view" of Yoda and Obi-Wan, Luke is indeed "The Last of the Jedi" despite the fact that they both know there's this girl out there with over 20,000 midichlorians flowing through her veins. (leia)

    There definitely would be, but they would be just as hunted as Kanan and Ezra. This is a police state; eventually the Empire will notice. And police states tend to be very effective at locating 'undesirables'.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Paulo Henrique

    Paulo Henrique Rebel General

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    Actually there were 10.000 Jedi at the time of the Order 66.
     
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  12. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash
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    I always thought that would have been a much stronger way of presenting the Jedi in the PT. It would have drawn a clear distinction between the Jedi and the Senate which I think the PT was lacking. Let's face it... the Jedi were portrayed as basically just another level of Republic bureaucracy. As wandering, ronin-style knights errant, they could have served the Republic just as well by letting the Force guide them to where they were needed the most. Of course, some of them would have established direct connections in the Senate during their careers, and could be called on directly. But overall, I think a more "wandering hero" sort of thing would have suited the Jedi far better than having them essentially be glorified lackeys of the Senate.

    And, of course, once the Sith threat became obvious a Jedi Council could have been convened on some out of the way planet to discuss how best to handle it - and Anakin/Vader could have sent a fleet to destroy them when they were all in one place.

    BUT... since that didn't happen, I think your idea of having a Kurasawa type film about wandering ronin-style Jedi would be very cool indeed. It could even be set in KOTOR times or earlier, before there was a Jedi Council on Coruscant.

    In fact, what about a SW version of Rashomon? Talk about a Jedi story that's all about "a certain point of view"!
     
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  13. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    The jedi will exist long after Luke is gone, he will go down as one of the greats but that's it new grand masters will continue his legacy if they fall it's the way of the galaxy.
     
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  14. Greg Kirby

    Greg Kirby Rebel Official

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    Luke the last nah.
    Before him was...
    1.Yoda
    2.Obi-wan
    3.Kanan
    4.Ezra
    5.Ahsoka

    After Return of the Jedi.
    1.Luke
    2.Leia
    3.Ahsoka ?

    At the Force Awakens
    1.Luke
    2.Leia
    3.Ahsoka?
    4.Rey Solo
    5.Kylo ren Solo
    6.Finn?
    7.Rose?
     
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  15. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    In short, no. Luke was most certainly not the last Jedi. Keep in mind that every Jedi (at the time of Order 66) were not necessarily surrounded by Clonetroopers to be gunned down like we saw in the PT. All that remained thereafter were most certainly hunted, but not all found. Kanan and Ezra have essentially been outed as Jedi for waving their lightsabers around when they should've been substantially more discreet....nothing like making a statement, and I suspect that they'll die. However, I do like the speculation/rumor/fantasy/hope that MvS could be playing an elder Kanan....we'll see.
    Obi-wan sent the "stay away signal" after Order 66 had been given and the news of the order (and subsequent) executions probably travelled fast throughout the galaxy. Those Jedi that were not found, had no intentions of being found...like Yoda and Kenobi. We only know about them because of Luke, and there were certainly more spread throughout the galaxy in hiding, many more I suspect....don't kid yourself.
    Now (at the end of ROTJ) that Vader and the Emperor have been removed from the stage and the Empire struggles to maintain it's power against an ever-growing rebellion/New Republic, we can perhaps suspect that the remaining (living) Jedi will slowly emerge from the shadows. Certainly none of them knew Luke, but they DID know (or know of) his father in either the Skywalker or Vader iteration...or both.
    The news of the rise of Luke Skywalker, "apprentice of both Yoda and Obi-wan and the son of Anakin Skywalker" as the MOST POWERFUL JEDI to perhaps ever have lived, that ALSO "defeated" the Emperor and Vader (so to speak) is bound to draw the remaining Jedi (or some of them) out of hiding to return to honor the cause and follow Luke.
    You have to be realistic about this scenario as it just isn't as cut-and-dried as "they're all dead"...that's a fantasy. Reading about Order 66 on Wookiepedia, I noticed that (again) this statement has been used; "the Jedi were all but extinct". You will keep in mind that "all but" means nearly or almost, and if there were (let's say) 5000 Jedi at the time of Order 66 (some have said 10,000) and only 100-200 survived in hiding that they were all but extinct....it's relative, think about it.
    Also while reading about 66 I noticed this line that seems to have little meaning and at first glance and is straightforward, until you read it twice (perhaps I'm overthinking it): "By confronting his father and saving him, Luke became the first new Jedi Knight in a generation, bringing about the return of the Jedi." First of all; Luke becoming the first new Jedi in a generation only means that he is the first newly trained but not necessarily the Jedi "return from extinction". Following that is the phrase; "bringing about the return of the Jedi" which (to me) could possibly mean not only Luke himself, but the return and/or re-emergence of the remainder of the order in exile. I think that the sentence is handily crafted to not mean exactly what it says at first glance. Something to think about...
     
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  16. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

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    If you go by everything before the prequels,he was. If you go for after,then he may be the only TRAINED Jedi left.
     
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  17. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Well Obi wan did once tell him he was the beginning of the new jedi generation.
     
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  18. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    Which in and of itself doesnt mean he was the only one left, just the first of the new ones.
     
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  19. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    I really like the "a certain point of view" idea.
    It was a brillant, fresh and new approach with Rashomon back then.
    I would like to see "The Good the Bad and the Ugly" as Star Wars version in the "a certain point of view" story telling style from Rashomon.
    Or about AMADEUS - Max Rebo "the tragic story of the unappreciated Music Genius" about what he had could been, told in four different perspectives".
     
    #19 Cmdr. Ed Straker, Mar 19, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  20. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    I couldn't agree more, I'd double like your post if I could.
     
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