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SPECULATION Was the prophecy fulfilled?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by TheGreyandTheRed, Nov 7, 2017.

?

Was the prophecy fulfilled?

Poll closed Nov 14, 2017.
  1. Yes

    81.1%
  2. No

    18.9%
  1. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    Was the prophecy fulfilled and was balance restored? This is probably still the most prominent question of the GFFA and its answer has massive ramifications on the ST.

    I've just read probably the most incisive theoretical answer to that question and would like to see what you guys think. This isn't my work I've got it from another site. Have a read.

    Apologies for the wall of text or if someone has already posted this.

    To answer your last question first, and directly:
    I don't know what the exact words of the original prophecy were. I don't think anyone does because they are not contained in any canon material (that I know of).

    There are some non-canon sources that speak of the prophecy, but not only are they officially classified as "legend" material, it's not clear, even within those sources, whether the prophecy being recounted is truly the original prophecy or simply a retelling (and possibly a reinterpretation) of whatever the original prophecy was. For purposes of this discussion, it works just as well and is safe to assume that the original words have been lost to the mists of time, and only the general idea survived until Anakin's day.

    The root of your confusion
    That said, your larger question reveals many misconceptions of the prophecy and the greater story of Star Wars. I feel that you're asking the wrong question because you're starting with the wrong assumptions. By clearing up some of those misconceptions, I think you will find that most of your concerns and confusions disappear into irrelevance.

    The problem is that your understanding of the Force itself and of the prophecy, just within the context of the films, is all wrong - but don't be offended, they are very common misunderstandings. In fact, that's why I'm taking the time to write out this long explanation: to put all those misconceptions to bed once and for all, for all the many people who are confused or outright mistaken in their understanding.

    What is the Force?
    The Force is not made of two sides. It is not made of Jedi and Sith. It is not made of dark and light. "Jedi and Sith", "Light and Dark" are ideas and concepts and they are ideas and concepts created bymultitudes of Force Users over the millenia to describe how they feel about, or perceive the Force, or its users, or certain actions.

    The Force simply is. It's a Force of nature (literally). "Good" and "evil" are human (or other species') inventions. They are labels put to actions of individuals, based on personal or cultural morality. In essence, they can be relative, they can be different from individual to individual, they can change with time and context, and they can be all-around ambiguous.

    What makes up the Force? Does the Force have "sides"?
    The Force is no more made up of "good" and "evil" than a stone is. It is only the consciousness that uses the stone to act that creates something good or something evil. I could use a stone to smash someone's skull, or I could use it to build a house, or a wall, or a bridge. The Force is no more made up of "good" or "evil" than water is. I could give you a glass of water, I could bathe you, I could water your crops, or I could drown you. But we'll talk a lot more about the Force as a flow of water a little later.

    Even if we consider this supposed duality of Jedi and Sith, or light and dark, your initial assumption falls apart. It is, in short, a false dichotomy. According to the extended canon of the Star Wars Universe, there have been many practitioners and groups and belief systems of both the light and dark sides of the Force. The Jedi were simply one particularly successful cult of light-side users, and the Sith of the dark side. But the fact remains, that not all light-side Force users are Jedi, and not all dark-side users are Sith.

    Just like you can be a badass MMA fighter, but not have a black-belt in Judo, a Jedi is simply a light-side Force user that has been granted an official title within the particular order and style of the Jedi. In the original trilogy, it wasn't even clear that the Emperor was a member of the Sith (at least going strictly by the movie canon only) until the Prequel trilogy came out. Similarly, in the sequel trilogy starting with Episode 7, there is no indication that Kylo Ren or Snoke consider themselves to be Sith. Neither, so far, use the title "Darth". Everything points to Vader's assassination of the Emperor, and Vader's subsequent death, as being the end of the rule of two, and the end of the Sith legacy. And yet, Kylo Ren and Snoke (and potentially the Knights of Ren, if they still exist), are still clearly dark-side Force users (by that narrow binary view of the Force). Chirrut Îmwe, in Rogue One, also seems to be a force-sensitive who is expressly described as not a Jedi.

    Even if we consider the broader categories of light and dark as two sides of the Force, we'd still be wrong. There are apparently some Force users that would be considered "grey Jedi". Both Count Dooku, and Qui-gon Jinn his apprentice, could have been considered to be among them. Dooku, in fact, left the Jedi Order, but continued practicing as a Force user, neither of the light or of the dark, until later falling to the dark side.

    Does bringing balance to the Force have anything to do with Sith and Jedi?
    Yes and no. I'll come back to this, but let's focus on the "no" for now.

    So the point of all this, is that your understanding of the prophecy of bringing "balance" to the Force is all wrong, because you don't understand what the Force is, what the Force is made of, or divided into, and thus you don't understand what it is that needs to be balanced. When you assume that "balancing" the Force has something to do with the number of Jedi and the number of Sith, then you are conflating "the Force" with "Force users".

    If I can make a strained metaphor, imagine you have a party with 5 girls and 4 guys and the pizza order arrives. Someone says, "we need to divide up the pizza so everyone gets a fair amount". Is your solution to then kick 1 girl out of the party? And when there are just 4 girls and 4 guys left, then you say, "ok, now the pizza is fairly divided"?

    You see how you missed the point of the Force? The Force is the pizza. The balance that needed to be found in that situation was with regards to the pizza, and had nothing to do with the gender of the party-goers. In fact, I could have chosen to "balance" the party-goers by way of their age, or by their height, or by their ethnicity, or by their clothing, and any way I would have gone about it would still have been wrong, because the focus needed to be on the pizza, not the party-goers.

    The prophecy did not say that the Chosen One would "bring balance to the Force users". No, the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force itself. That means something was wrong, or out of balance, with the Force itself!

    So what exactly does it mean to "bring balance" to the Force?
    The Force doesn't have two sides, but it does have many facets. But even those facets are more reflective of the kind of person that the Force user is, rather than a reflection on the Force itself. There is no good Force and bad Force, there are simply Force users that choose to do "good" deeds by using the Force, and others that choose to do "bad" deeds by using the Force.

    So the Force doesn't have two sides, it actually has many sides, but even those sides can't definitively said to be "good" or "bad". The Force simply is, the same way the universe simply is, and the same way that you can't say the universe is "good" or "bad". So now you're getting frustrated: what the hell are we balancing?

    The answer comes from Lucas himself (but apparently the original recording is only available on the VHS of the Special Edition of A New Hope [Episode 4]). If the Force just is, it exists independent of any Jedi, any Sith, or any Force user. In such a state, it could be said to be in its "natural" state. The Jedi view the Force, and its power, and its will, as a river (there's that water comparison I promised you was coming). This is alluded to when Obi-wan says to "feel the Force flowing through you".

    The Jedi and the metaphor of the river
    A Jedi also views himself as a servant of that river, swimming in the river itself. Though a person swimming in a strong, deep river may be able to slow down slightly, or perhaps even pause for a bit on a rock or in an eddy, or sometimes swim from bank to bank, they can never swim back against the current of the river, and they can never choose to avoid their ultimate destination, or go anywhere that the river does not go.

    Just so is the relationship between a Jedi and the Force: "You mean it controls your actions? Partially, but it also obeys your commands." When Obi-wan tells Luke to "let go" he is telling him to stop fighting the river, and let it take him where he needs to go.

    Lucas also describes the relationship between the Jedi and the Force as a mutualistic symbiotic relationship (a relationship paralleled in the flesh by the symbiotic midichlorians). The power and the speed of the Force at a Jedi's back gives him or her his power. In fact, a Jedi who is not "listening to the will" of the Force, and fighting the current so to speak, is weaker.

    At the same time, as an agent of the connections between all life, the Force guides Jedi to where they can connect with other life and build stronger bonds between them. The river of the Force contains all living things. "It surrounds us and penetrates us";"it binds the galaxy together." Both sides benefit in this relationship. The Force grows strong with more life, and the life that flows with the will of the Force also grows stronger. The Jedi live in harmony with the river, taking only what they need to survive, and at the same time protecting all the life of the river and the river itself.

    The Sith and the river
    But what about the Sith? Whereas the most important concern for a Jedi is the will of the Force, the most important concern for a Sith is themselves. Whereas a Jedi seeks to make the Force stronger, the Sith seeks to make himself or herself stronger. Whereas a Jedi tries to listen to the Force, the Sith wants the Force to listen to them. Whereas a Jedi swims in the flow of the river, the Sith seeks to control the flow of the river, to bend it into new directions where it never intended to go, and at times, to completely dam its flow and completely harness the power of its currents for their own purposes.

    And just like a dam in the real world, though it brings great power to the owner of the dam, it completely devastates the ecosystem of the life that lives in and around the river. Fish are caught off from their spawning and feeding grounds, sediment builds up, lands upstream are flooded, fresh water ceases to flow downstream and lands dry up. The natural balance of that ecosystem, established over thousands of years, is completely upended.

    A Sith is not a mutualistic symbiote with the Force, but rather, a cancerous parasite. Whereas Yoda describes the Force as his friend and "ally" - an equal and partner - for the Sith the Force is simply a tool, or even worse, a slave, for their own selfish designs and purposes. In his or her hate-filled use of the Force, a Sith destroys life and the connections between life, and thereby destroys the Force itself. The Sith user becomes stronger by gathering up all the Force power for himself, but in so doing makes the Force weaker and dimmer for everyone else. Whereas a Jedi would never draw more power from the Force than they need, would never draw more power from the Force than what it offers up, would never draw power from the Force at the expense of others, a Sith forces the Force to take power from others. And so the river downstream dries up, the current slows down, and the connections between life weaken.

    This is exactly what Yoda was talking about in the prequels when he said "the dark side clouds everything" and when Mace Windu commented that the Jedi power to use the Force had "diminished". Palpatine (the Emperor, a.k.a. Darth Sidious) was such a strong Sith, and had gathered so much of the river's power to him, that the Jedi were left high and dry, unable to hear clearly the will of the Force anymore, unable to swim in its shallow waters, unable to accurately sense the future, nor the fact that the Sith were literally right under their noses. Yoda knew what was happening, and knew that the Sith had returned precisely because of the Jedis' weakened connection, but even he couldn't stop it: "Only the Dark Lord knows of our weakness".

    The Jedi and the prophecy
    This then, was the goal of the Jedi: to maintain the natural state of the river of the Force. They saw themselves as servants, caretakers, friends, and guardians of the Force and all the life and creatures that both gave the Force its power and in turn received power from that river.

    Now we can finally understand why I said "yes and no" to the question of whether the Sith and Jedi have something to do with the prophecy of bringing balance to the Force. The answer is "no", because the prophecy is not directly about Sith or Jedi - it is instead about the health (or "balance", or in the French translation, "harmony") of the Force. The focus, as in my bad pizza metaphor above, is on the state of the Force itself. However, we can also say "yes" in that the Jedi and Sith are indirectly involved in the balance of the Force, just as the party-goers are involved in the eating the pizza, and just as we humans can affect the health of our ecosystem by our actions and behavior.

    The Jedi followed a mantra similar to a responsible hiker or camper: "leave nothing but footprints." Even in their "use" of the Force, their goal was to leave the state of the Force as much unchanged as possible, almost as if they had never been there, and to oppose those who wished to change it. They would go along with the will, or flow, of the Force, even though you might not be able to characterize that will as good or evil, necessarily. It was simply a force of nature. At times, the will of the Force might even include the destruction of life, either as retribution, or as a sacrifice, especially when that destruction might allow other life to flourish.

    In contrast to themselves, the Jedi saw the Sith as a destructive corruption of the river's natural state, and it is the Sith's selfish use of the Force, twisting it to their own desires, and collecting tremendous amount of power at the expense of everyone else, which result in an unbalanced and unnatural state.

    Whereas the prophecy of balance is not specifically about the Sith (nor the Jedi), the inevitable conclusion that must be reached is that the mere presence of a dark-side user, particularly an ultra-powerful Sith, disrupts the normal balance of the Force and should be corrected; and the Jedi, as the guardians of that balance, see themselves as the agents responsible for making that correction.

    Anakin
    So when a boy with an incredible affinity for the Force, possibly created by the Force itself, shows up, at the same time that the Sith reappear after a thousand years missing, and a dark, sinister, mysterious power begins to creep into and cloud the mind of all the Jedi, it is no wonder that many Jedi began to think of the prophecy of the one who would return the Force to its natural uncorrupted state.

    In turn, when Revenge of the Sith (Episode 3) ends, and the Jedi are all but dead, the "balance" is definitely not restored. In fact, quite the contrary. The Sith Lord has attained his fully revealed, completely unchecked power ("unlimited power!"). He has built a dam so strong that he was able to defeat all the Jedi, to betray them without them knowing, and to turn their strongest against them. The river of the Force is now basically dry, and its former guardians and protectors all dead or on the run.

    A certain point of view?
    Of course, all of this depends on the viewpoint of the Jedi, and as Yoda himself said, "a prophecy that misread could have been." So possibly, from the Sith point of view, if they even believed in such a parallel prophecy, the end of Episode 3 could very well have been some fulfillment of their understanding of "balance".

    But from the point of view of the good guys, Anakin does actually fulfill his intended prophecy. When he kills the Emperor in Episode 6, he also turns back to the good side and therefore "kills" Darth Vader. With both Sith "dead", the dam is broken, the river of the Force is unleashed again and free to flow without hinderance, and the process of healing and a return to a natural state can begin.

    (Episode VII's title of "The Force Awakens" seems to speak exactly to that idea [which is cool], but some might ask why it would take thirty years for the Force to wake up? Ignoring the fact that the plot, and title, and time difference between Episodes VI and VII were not part of Lucas' original story arc, it would be easy and sensible to rationalize that, just as a scarred and polluted and parched landscape might take several decades or even centuries to fully recover from an environmental disaster, so might the restoration of the balance of the Force be a process that requires a significant amount of time.)

    The "Return of the Jedi" is not just Luke becoming a true Jedi by letting go his selfish fears, following the will of the Force, and confronting Vader, but it is much more importantly Anakin's return to the way of the Jedi and his fulfillment of the original prophecy. Episode 1 through 6 are really the story, the journey, and the prophecy of Anakin.

    (Luke can definitely be considered an important catalyst to the fulfillment of the prophecy, but it is Anakin's actions and specific choice, that directly end the Emperor's, and his own, tyrrany over the galaxy and the Force. Again, as Episodes VII - IX were not originally part of the story arc, it may be necessary to "misinterpret" the prophecy again. If the process of restoring balance to the Force requires more time and effort, then perhaps Luke has a larger role to play in the prophecy. This complicates matters, however, as the prophecy speaks of a Chosen "One" [not "Two"]. Either we then consider Luke's role to be separate from Anakin's [i.e. not involved in the prophecy directly as the prophecy is already fulfilled] or we can speculate that as Luke is Anakin's son, the product of his loins, the inheritor of his powers, and the result of his crucible by fire, that any of Luke's actions in regards to the restoration of the Force are still attributable to Anakin [and then we consider that Anakin only began the process of fulfilling the prophecy, which his son, or other progeny, will then complete.] We'll have to wait for this new trilogy to finish before we make any definitive guesses [ha] as regards to how the prophecy may or may not be related to it.)

    Thematically, narratively, and symbolically, the end of Episode 6 must be the realization of the "balance" that the Jedi hoped to restore. And if you don't want to take the word of the Jedi, nor of the Sith, consider it from the viewpoint of the Force itself (if the Force can even have a view). Would the Force rather be, just be, a Force of nature that does its thing and has some dudes (Jedi and others) that help make sure the Force can continue to just be, or would the Force rather be a slave to the plans of one dude (a Sith) who wants to control everything?

    From my point of view, I think the answer is pretty obvious.
     
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  2. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    Yes it was fulfilled.

     
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    In short, yes the prophecy came true and balance was restored when Anakin destroyed the Sith. As for what that means...

    I always think it important to remember what the Force essentially is: "An energy field created by all living things".
    Therefore, the balance of the Force relates not just to the Jedi and Sith/Dark Siders but to the whole galaxy.
    For me the balance refers to the equality of dark and light in the galaxy. Both will *always* exist and it is important to remember that the destruction of the Sith was not the destruction of all evil in the galaxy.

    The fact is, without hate there cannot be love, without selfishness there cannot be compassion and without war there can be no peace.
    But the balance of the Force requires parity with these things - but what those who serve the Dark Side do is empower the dark over the light.
    This is how the Sith caused imbalance - not by their mere existence (they were around for a thousand years without the balance being disturbed) but by their actions.

    *Anyone* can disrupt the balance of the Force if they wield enough power. But clearly in the GFFA, those who wield the Dark Side itself have the greater power and thus the greater ability to do this. And as we see with the Sith, they had the power to utterly destroy the balance in the PT. When the orchestrated the Clone Wars, "evil was everywhere" as it says at the beginning of RotS. What is also clear is that only the Jedi have the power and wisdom to actually defeat those who serve the Dark Side. This is why Lor San Tekka says "without the Jedi there can be no balance in the Force". It is why Maz speaks about the different forms of those who serve the Dark Side whilst still holding faith in the Jedi, and the Jedi alone, to fight it. It is why Luke being "the last Jedi" is so damn important! For the Jedi not only have the power to stop the Dark Side taking over, but they're also the only ones who know how. They do it by remaining steadfast within the light. They're wholly compassionate and selfless and thus, when they truly stick to that (unlike during the Clone Wars) they can fight the Dark Side rather than empower it.

    Clearly though, the balance is an ever shifting event and there will be times where the Jedi fail - as we see in the PT and with Luke post RotJ. Mistakes are made and the Dark Side takes over. This indeed explains what happened post RotJ and why the balance that Anakin brought didn't last very long. People have difficulty with this (as the balance was so short) and then seem to take the view that Anakin didn't bring balance and the prophecy was misread (it's an ongoing thing for his family to achieve). I think they're wrong. I simply thing this "problem" was created by the ST being made in the first place after Lucas, for all intent and purposes, finished the Vader saga when he made the PT. By introducing the prophecy, RotJ had a more definitive ending. So they had a choice at LFL, throw out the prophecy (and the PT storyline with it) or simply have it be that things went wrong again and the Force has gone out of balance. I think they went with option 2 and I think it makes good sense.

    What they have done is continued to make the saga be about Vader - the PT was his "birth & fall", the OT his life & redemption and the ST his legacy. Vader's legacy is then one the has unfortunately given rise to the FO and Ben Solo's turn to the Dark Side. And so for the new hero, Rey, she not only has to bring balance (or if it isn't destroyed, at least keep it balanced) but end the cycle of darkness that Vader created for good.

    As for the prophecy itself, I believe it has always been based on what Lucas originally wrote back in '74:

    "…And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as THE SON OF THE SUNS."
    Journal of the Whills, 3:127

    The prophecy then went into greater deal about a "period of dark times" that this "saviour" would put an end to. This is and will always be about Anakin.
     
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  4. Imperial Slug

    Imperial Slug Rebel Trooper

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    Everything now depends on where Rian Johnson has steered the Star Wars universe. All (or, at least more than what we know now!) shall be revealed in 5 weeks....:)
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 7, 2017 ---
    I will say this, Mark Hamill said in a recent interview that Luke's state of mind now is due to the fact that he believed Ben Solo to be the Chosen One, and what an epic fail that turned out to be. Clearly, from the trailers and previews, there is going to be quite a bit more to do with the Force and the idea of balance than we were left with at the end of both the Prequel and the Original Trilogy...
     
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'm pretty certain he meant this in regards to Ben being a potentially great Jedi rather than an actual chosen one. Though it could be that he saw an impending conflict and thought Ben could be the chosen one to sort that out. My point is, it doesn't conflict with the prophecy of the chosen one or Anakin actually bringing balance...because he did!
     
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  6. Imperial Slug

    Imperial Slug Rebel Trooper

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    You seem to base much of your answers on speculation and your own creative content. It's hard to gauge where Star Wars is going from here, but creatively it's where Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm decide to steer it. George Lucas is no longer steering this ship
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    All the official sources and canon still say Anakin brought balance and there is no way Lucas wouldn't have had it written into the deal that they cannot change his storyline. Besides, if you say that Anakin wasn't the chosen one and didn't bring balance, it makes a mockery of the PT. That's not my speculation, that's directly from Lucas, LucasFilm, the directors and story-group. RJ might well take it beyond the balance of the Force, but it cannot and will not change what has come before.
     
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  8. Flyboy

    Flyboy Jedi Commander

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    The way I've seen it since reading this quote is this, yes, Anakin fulfilled his prophecy in destroying the Sith, the Sith are gone and they are never coming back... but he didn't bring complete balance to the force.

    That's always been the million dollar question regarding the prophecy, what exactly is balance in the force? Was Anakin supposed to bring balance to the force forever? If that's the case then he failed, partially at least. Which means the prophecy hasn't been FULLY fulfilled... therefore it's possible the Jedi could still be looking for another "chosen one". Luke thought it to be Ben Solo.

    BUT now that raises an interesting question if my take on everything is correct. When exactly or how exactly was the Force determined to be "still imbalanced?" Was it the rise of Snoke? That would mean he was known of prior to Ben's turn. Was it something that happened prior to that? Or was it just something that Luke "felt".
     
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  9. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Again, this has all been explained. No, the balance isn't eternal. It will ebb and flow. it will change when evil rises. Anakin brought balance when he destroyed the Sith because that one act ended the grip the Empire had on the galaxy and hope returned. Evil was no longer empowered over good. With the introduction of the ST, this had to mean the balance began to slip again - and sooner than perhaps the expectation of the PT prophecy suggested. But it had to happen. Nevertheless, Anakin still brought balance when he destroyed the Sith.
     
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  10. Flyboy

    Flyboy Jedi Commander

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    Ok then. But that could mean then that the prophecy is cyclical, right? Anakin fulfilled his prophecy. A few decades later a new threat emerges, the force is thrown all out of wack again and Luke thinks this time, Ben is the one who's gonna balance it all out.
     
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  11. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    That suggest fate or inevitability. I think it is more simple than that - there will always be evil people and these people, if they have the power, can take over.
    And as we see, this is exactly what happened in TFA. It says it in the opening scroll:

    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed...."

    This is further echoed by Lor San Tekka: "Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force".

    Essentially, all that has happened is evil has taken over (or is taking over) once again. This wasn't inevitable but a result of Ben Solo turning bad and Luke going into exile - as well of course as the FO being able to grow into a military might. And even if Luke/Rey/Ben manage to defeat the FO and bring balance again, that doesn't mean it will be forever. One hopes they can maintain the balance for longer this time (as the PT Jedi had done), but they must always be wary of the insidious beings that use the Dark Side - for they will always exist and always seek to take over and spread "evil everywhere".

    Only the Jedi have the knowledge, wisdom and power to stop these people and maintain the balance. Luke and Anakin together achieved this in RotJ. And now Rey, perhaps with Ben, must do it again...and possible more still.
     
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  12. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Speaking of which I'd like to remind you all that
    as far as we know (OT) no one ever told Luke about the prophecy.
    No one ever told Luke his father was supposed to be the Chosen One.

    We don't know if Luke ever spoke to a Force Ghost again after Ep. VI.

    There are plenty of chances that he found out about the prophecy on his own
    at some point of the 30 years between ROTJ and TFA and knowing that his father
    wasn't exactly a saint... perhaps he thought Ben Solo was the Chosen One.

    Not that it has to be like that... but it could.
     
    #12 lealt, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  13. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    What a great discussion!

    Ok the entire Chosen 1 thing.

    Assuming the Force was imbalanced 4 thousands of years. Assuming that the Chosen 1 is semi-sacred, possibly born of the Force.

    So your telling me the "ballance" from this great, powerful Chosen 1 lasts only 30 years?

    Also notice that the Infallible Hildago only twitted that the Sith got destroyed. He never sed anything about balance in dat Tweet.

    I'm in the "Yoda sed it may b misread, let's wait & c wut RJ does" camp in this whole Chosen 1 thing.
     
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  14. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The Force wasn't imbalanced for 4 thousand years. The balance started to slip around TPM and became truly unbalanced during the Clone Wars.
    Now, yes 30 years of balance is an anticlimax somewhat to the prophecy and build up on the PT (and OT). But it is either that or they essentially ruin the PT by saying that Anakin wasn't the chosen one and the prophecy was misread. It diminishes Anakin/Vader's story and the PT as a whole. By saying that Anakin did bring balance but it has slipped again, because of Vader's legacy, it keeps Anakin at the heart of this yet allows for the story to be expanded, without damaging the PT.

    Now, I'm not ruling out future "chosen ones" or prophecies, but I think it set in stone that Anakin was the chosen one, he did destroy the Sith and that this brought balance to the Force.
     
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  15. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    I personally don't think the prophecy has been fulfilled and I'm basing this purely on the fact that there is a ST.

    Star wars is often referred to as a fairy tale and in a fairy tale you have a 'happily ever after'. Which if the story ends after ROTJ is fine, there is your happy ending. However the fact that after just 30years the entire galaxy is in a similar state of turmoil and under threat from an almost identical enemy either makes the prophecy appear superfluous or that it was never fulfilled/hasn't been fulfilled yet.

    I think the ST will explore the implications of this one very important line from ROTS 'a prophecy that misread could have been'. This would enhance the continuity from the previous films to the new, knowing that the original story is still ongoing.

    Otherwise if the choose to demonstrate that it was fulfilled then we have a completely different end game altogether and it will take some work to make sure that the ST doesn't just feel 'tagged on'

    Either way though it requires a convincing and engaging narrative to make it feel natural and not forced and it will be exciting either way :p.
     
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  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    "Light...darkness...balance"
    "It's so much bigger"

    I think the point the trailer makes here is that this is going beyond "the balance of the Force" and that there will be something else, perhaps bigger itself, at stake.
    If we say Anakin didn't bring balance then his story is greatly diminished. They won't do that. It was what made the PT the story it was.
    The continuation for me works as long as they tie it into the story of Darth Vader. If this trilogy is about his legacy then that'll work well for me.
    This isn't just about bringing balance by ending the conflict - it's about ending the cycle of conflict, that Vader essentially started, for good.
    And as I elude to above, I think they will go beyond balance and have the prize be the control of the Force itself - not just the idea of balancing it.
     
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  17. jaqua524

    jaqua524 Clone Commander

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    Yes it was fulfilled. Balance existed until Anakin's descendant interrupted that balance by falling to the dark (Ben). Further supporting my stance that Anakin and his family have the greatest impact upon the galaxy due to their bloodline being born from the force.
     
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I wouldn't say that disrupted the balance. Numbers of Jedi and "Sith" isn't what causes imbalance. It is their actions and influence upon the galaxy as a whole.
    Now that the FO has grown and spread across the galaxy, the imbalance has likely began. Kylo Ren is a big part of that - in that his power, used by Snoke, has enabled them to take over. But he doesn't imbalance the Force just by existing as a Dark Sider.
     
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  19. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    @master_shaitan


    Please note im bassing my "unbalance lasted thousands of years" on Legends. Because the Prophsey is ancient in Legends. Yes i know its no longer canon.

    I'm not an EU defender but it's all canon (2 me) until proven otherwise.
     
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  20. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Notice that the happily ever after happened. There was a new Republic, new Jedi, a pirate and princess who tripped the light fandango. The happily ever after was broken, disrupted by the betrayal of Ben, his fall to the darkside and so on. Its not the same unresolved problem its a new chapter.
     
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