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SPECULATION Way to Cure Rey's Mary Sue accusations?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by ReyErso5280, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Even if you allow the assumption that she was a Mary Sue in TFA (Which I disagree with). Watching TLJ should end that assumption.

    1- She's naïve expecting that once finding Luke Skywalker he would ride to the rescue and destroy the entire 1st Order with a laser sword.

    2- She in her driven curiosity she heads right for the Dark side without a second thought.

    3- She in her rage almost kills Luke.

    4- She falls for Snoke's trap.

    5- She believes that Luke can just show up and cure Ben. So much so that if Luke won't go she will and Ben will come back to the light.

    6- She after being warned by Luke still rides off thinking she can turn Ben back to the light.

    Apparently even being gullible, angsty and accidently helping a patricidal murderer on the throne of the Galaxy are mistake enough to end her "Mary Sue" status.
     
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  2. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    Pastor Barndog,

    Out of 6 reasons you posted, only number 4 in my book de-sue her. All the other ones makes her more Mary Sue.
     
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  3. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    Just goes to show how conveniently fluid the definition of Mary Sue is. To Barndog it obviously means something different than to you.
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Or conveniently useless.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Bingo.
    The actual definition of Mary Sue doesn't fit Rey at all.

    So when Macks Landisssss started calling her that after TFA (yes he is the one who kick started all this), everyone jumped on even if they didn't understand where this use of the word stems from. Mary Sue has become a word to denigrate a female character (even if she's no different than a male character) just because. Maybe it's Landis' checkered past with women that cause me to doubt this use of the word has any other origin than sexism in regards to Rey.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/bright-screenwriter-max-landis-accused-of-sexual-assault
     
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  6. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    Exactly
     
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  7. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    There are other Mary Sue testers, other than the three I used, of course.
     
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  8. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Great! Are there also testers that tell you Rey's Myers-Briggs type, or what her horoscope is?

    I bet there are! ;)
     
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  9. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    RE: Rey's Myers-Briggs type/Horoscope.
    <Roland in the movie Jumper>Only God should have those information</Roland in the movie Jumper>
     
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  10. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    I've never thought she was a mary sue. I don't get that when I see Rey but maybe she will stump her toe or get a splinter in IX to help her out.
     
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  11. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    People only see what they want to see. Haters are going to hate regardless. I loved Rey in TFA. In TLJ she was tossed away regardless by RJ. Her primary motive is now to bow down to man. She will probably end up blown up in order for Ben to survive. Then probably some of you guys will be delighted. Because you know we need more empowering male super hero stories.
     
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  12. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    I wanted 50/50. How about they just help each other out at the end to defeat Abeloth!Snoke?.
    Wait..... Abeloth is a woman! The motive to hate her begins in 3 2 1
    I must hate Abeloth. If only you knew the power of man.
     
  13. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    I don't think Rey was a Mary Sue in TFA as the accompanying media gave plausible reasons for her abilities such as her fighting Jakku thugs to survive (her comfort with melee fighting), learning to fly on a scavenged flight simulator and learning the parts of starships, learning languages from traders passing through Jakku, trading with droids so again understanding binary etc... it all actually makes sense.

    My only problem with Rey is her being able to pick up those boulders at the end of Episode 8.... even Anakin required some training before he could use such abilities and he was the Chosen One. So she is bordering on Mary Sue territory here but then I put it down to bad story telling in an attempt to capture a good visual.
     
  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    They're just boulders.
    All she did was lift them. Basic force move. "Size matters not."
    She believes she can do it. She knows she has to do it.

    Anakin required 0 training to blow up a giant ship in his first time in space. Don't start this training wormhole
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I do kinda miss the days when we could argue the merits of whether or not Palpatine (having been reborn through spirit transference) could feasibly create force vortexes between planets.

    Now we're talking about whether or not a girl can lift rocks. They times, they are a'changin'.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    That's what gives me the best guess where the base of this all seems to come from....
     
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  17. Exo

    Exo Rebel Commander

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    I go back and forth on how I feel about Rey, but I don't think this is so. First, I think Luke is the standard, in a way. He was the first, and he is special, so I think it's supposed to be an accomplishment to become a jedi knight in four years time. Secondly, even if we just compare movies, she has done much more than Luke thinks possible. Right now we have finished both ESB and TLJ. Relating specifically to the force, Rey has done incredible things. Her combat, telekinesis, and overall sense of the force are unbelievably great. Adding the in-universe time difference makes it worse. However, as to 1, I don't think Rey is a jedi knight yet, in the same way that Anakin as of RotS wasn't a master yet. As to 2... I don't know, what do you think?
     
  18. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    We are not actually debating whether a female could become a Jedi.
    We are debating whether any candidate, could master the Force in 0.000001 seconds via osmosis.
    I mean can you imagine,
    Yuuzhan Vong: Mwahhahahah evil and stuff we will now assimilate you and make a Force sensitive Jedi. Mwahhahahaha
    14 year old Tahiri Veila: I am female Jedi, hear me roar. *Uses Force to kill every single Yuuzhan Vong on Yavin.*
    Me: That's a Mary Sue right there.
    Others: What do you have against Tahiri? I want to watch a movie like that.
    Me: Okay.
     
  19. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    I know you weren't directing this question towards me, but here's what I think.

    I've said this before a few times, we have to stop comparing Rey, her force abilities, progression and training to characters we've seen in the past, namely Luke... because he's really the only one. We never really got to see any of Anakin's training, Luke is the only person who's ever gone through any sort of training in the films. If you want to add in things like Clone Wars/Rebels that number goes up, but only slightly (Of course I'm talking about things that are exclusively in the current canon. We have a number that we can count on one hand, such a small sample size compared to the overall number that have existed, tens/hundreds of thousands spread across thousands of years. It's easy to look at Luke and say, "He's the standard, that's how it should be" but we just don't know that. Luke could be an exception rather than the standard, maybe his progression was slower than the normal.

    But even if Luke is the standard, it's still something that's not worth arguing in my opinion because we're talking about the Force which in and of itself is the ultimate Mary Sue/Gary Stu, deus ex machina power that has ever existed. It's infinite in what it can do. Even if I was bothered by it, any argument I could come up with could just be countered with, "But it's the Force"... and I'd be left just shrugging my shoulders in a, "Yeah I guess" kind of way. Who am I to say that the Force can't have such a strong connection with someone, especially considering from what we know for certain about the Force is the possibility that it could happen is far greater than it not happening, because the power is immeasurable.
     
    #79 Flyboy, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Why would anyone argue that? To what character is that hyperbole relevant?
     
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