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Weaponizing the haters

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018.

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  1. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Interesting peer reviewed paper looking at the hate directed toward The Last Jedi, its cast and crew. I find this stuff fascinating because it's bigger than Star Wars. It's a window into how people attempt to control and create narratives online.

    No movie is universally loved, but the odd thing about The Last Jedi is the reaction online on Twitter, Reddit, and YouTube doesn't really match what's happening in the real world.



    The point of this isn't to say people don't hate the film. Many people have valid reasons for not liking this film, but the study points out:
    Most people loved TLJ, but a tiny minority really hated it.
     
    #1 DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018
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  2. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    [​IMG]
     
    #2 MagnarTheGreat, Oct 2, 2018
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  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Excuse me asking.... what does all this non-controlled data have to do with this peer reviewed scientific research? It's not surprising that easily manipulated data isn't useful.
     
    #3 DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    This is truly fascinating not just because of the implications on Star Wars but (as the article states) the implications this has on politics.
    I'd be curious to purchase the article in the near future.
     
    #4 RoyleRancor, Oct 2, 2018
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  5. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    I am not looking forward to all kinds of headlines this is going to spawn... And this comes from a massive TLJ fan. I read the study and to me its value is dubious. It doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table and the scope is very limited. It's mostly stuff we can all observe, but put in an academic dressing (and peppered with a bit of bias).

    I wish we moved on... But now we're in for another couple of days of noise. It's J.J's "fans threatened by women" all over again, but this time it's "TLJ hate was weaponized by Russia" (an actual headline on Mashable). THR: "Star Wars: The Last Jedi Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds." Meanwhile in the study: "16 out of 967 analysed accounts appear to be Russian trolls." That's like borderline nothing, if you ask me.
     
    #5 srg, Oct 2, 2018
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  6. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The numbers in this peer reviewed study back other controlled samples of the film that support the idea that those that hate the film are around 10%. That's significant because many people who don't like the film are convinced that there's a massive backlash against TLJ and Star Wars in general. The data simply doesn't support the backlash narrative.

    I can sympathize that you're tired of this topic, but at the same time you did respond to the study which found that Rian Johnson is attacked by a significant about of trolls and bots. The reality is many people are simply never going to accept that The Last Jedi was popular with most fans.

    FWIW the paper itself says there's more sock puppet/troll accounts than bots. The Russian thing makes for a good headline, but they were a smaller number of the sample. 1000 tweets is a pretty big sample so the 16 shouldn't' bother you.
     
    #6 DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018
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  7. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    He's a far-left Star Wars fanboy. The far-left clings to symbolism which some of them have decided (for no good reason since the white guys dominate the story) is The Last Jedi like the far-right clings to the Confederate monuments. He was looking to be hired for his work.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=from:mortenbay star wars&src=typed_query

    (July 3, 2018)

    (August 2, 2018)

    Movie directors typically don't get tweeted at whether people liked or hated or were meh on a movie anyway. I never tweeted at Rian Johnson.
     
    #7 MagnarTheGreat, Oct 2, 2018
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  8. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    I get that. I just don't feel like that's news. A lot of us (myself included) don't believe the haters are the majority since day one, which is why I don't think it's a groundbreaking study. Sites like SWNN have done a good work surveying and spreading the word about the actual scale of the backlash and this paper doesn't add much to it. OK, he counted the tweets and percentage. Cool, it's quotable. But at the end of the day that's still a relatively small sample.

    But that was my point. The number of alleged "Russian bots" is insignificant, so I'm bothered by the nutty headlines like "TLJ hate was weaponized by Russia". I'm a fan of the movie, but BS in support of it is still BS to me.
     
    #8 srg, Oct 2, 2018
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  9. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    #9 MagnarTheGreat, Oct 2, 2018
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  10. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Average movie ticket price in 2017, $18.00. This includes price boosters like IMAX & 3D.

    Average movie ticket price in 2002, $5.81

    Comparing the "worst" SW films ever made, AOTC vs TLJ. AOTC destroys TLJ adjusted for inflation.
     
    #10 Darth Basin The Greatest, Oct 2, 2018
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  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    lol *this reaction is coming from someone who likes TLJ*
     
    #11 Andrew Waples, Oct 2, 2018
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  12. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    Do we really need another thread about how big the hate of TLJ is?
    I doubt we will ever get objective numbers.
    Can we stop calling people haters just for not liking and being disappointed by TLJ?
    Or are we just trying to say that the people really hating TLJ with passion are a small group even in the way bigger group of the people that didn't like TLJ and where disappointed?
     
    #12 Meister Yoda, Oct 2, 2018
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  13. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    That goes both ways. People have been called Disney shills for liking TLJ.
     
    #13 Andrew Waples, Oct 2, 2018
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  14. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    righteous dudes we are ;) taking the higher road we can(yoda 2)
     
    #14 Meister Yoda, Oct 2, 2018
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    If you don't have anything specific to say about the peer reviewed research paper that's fine, but do you have a reason why you cling to non sample data? Anyone who understands statistics knows it's useless. The idea that this guy's politics or the fact that he liked the movie somehow disqualifies him is silly.

    16 isn't insignificant in a sample size this large.

    Part of the reason I posted this is to shed light on real objective numbers. Every time someone presents a controled sample showing that 70 to 80% of people like the movie the counter argument is always antidotal or some poll it's easy to manipulate. In this case, some are blaming the man's politics or the fact that he liked the movie.

    No one has ever said not liking the movis is a crime. It's fine. It's the idea that it's more than a tiny minority that seems to be the lightning rod.

    Finally this study is in line with other studies that have tried to measure the audience reaction. Here's another controlled survey from a couple of months ago.

     
    #15 DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018
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  16. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    As far as I know, it might be endemic to the USA.

    I don't know if my fellow europeans saw something tied with politics and The Last Jedi in our current politics issues but I might be wrong.
     
    #16 Bandini, Oct 2, 2018
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  17. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    Its true I dislike this movie because Russian bots convinced me to do so.


    foh
     
    #17 Josh, Oct 2, 2018
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  18. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    People need to realize, even if you didnt like The Last Jedi, that the Russian troll farms that helped Trump win are trying to divide us. They are doing using cultural events, sports event and politics. Sure go ahead and not like TLJ, but realize some comments and tweets you agreed with were specifically put forward to divide.
     
    #18 KeithF1138, Oct 2, 2018
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  19. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    Isn't it, though? It's 1.65% of the sample. And IMO Twitter isn't a great source to begin with. The site is notorious for being just the worst and tweeting at the director is a rather niche form of expressing an opinion. And we're talking about a film that millions of fans have an opinion about. That's why I'm cautious of these numbers and legitimacy of the sample, even though I love the film. Running with a headline like Mashable's "TLJ hate was weaponized by Russia" or blaming "angry right-wing men" for all the evil in the fandom is as lame as being mad about "Kennedy's SJW agenda" or whatever TLJ haters like to get excited about in their clickbaits.

    On a side note, I just don't feel insecure enough with my opinion about TLJ to be excited about papers like this and headlines it's going to make. I guess I wouldn't care if I was in the minority. The only thing I care about is LFL doing their thing without looking back at what the online community has to say about it (and I believe they have ways of gathering the only numbers that matter). Fan-service and course correction based on fan response are things I'm not fond of.
     
    #19 srg, Oct 2, 2018
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  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Great source for what? I was curious myself so I checked some of the accounts tweeting at Rian Johnson last night and there were bot accounts in the mix. I didn't have to look very hard.
    If this study was telling us something that was contrary to other controlled samples I'd agree. However, this is in line with the original scientific audience scores and with fan surveys taken six months after the film.
     
    #20 DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018
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