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Weaponizing the haters

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Attuned

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    Really? Which forum was that? Because, as far as I can tell, around here racism and misogyny barely come up.
     
  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    It was pretty tense before TLJ in the Finn thread and any thread that mentioned Rey
     
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  3. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Attuned

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    The poster was talking about post-TLJ period, but this does make the whole picture more interesting.
     
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  4. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I don't think you're familiar with the concept of a "controlled sample." It a statistical term that ensures that a survey is representative.
    Nope. No one in this thread is asking for that. This thread is about a peer reviewed study about people who tweet at Rian Johnson.
    This is off topic. It also seems like a generalization since there's plenty of people here who didn't like the film and I wouldn't say they're racist/misogynist.

    Again, it's okay to not like the film. It's also okay to point out that most people liked it.
     
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  5. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    LOL, my goodness this is too much. He is analyzing 967 tweets and proclaiming how the fandom feels based on this? LOL, come on y'all. He has no way to confirm that the accounts represent one person or individuals or otherwise are controlled, if they actually identify as the identity they claim, if they even purchased tickets and saw the movie, or if their sample of social media interaction on Twitter with the director is actually representative of the ticket buying audience mood. I mean, are we serious here?

    I honestly would understand why people brought up the Survey Monkey polling from last December, which at least doesn't suffer from these issues. But I suspect there's a reason why there have been no actual polls since the debut, because the numbers would confirm just how many people don't like TLJ. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to agree with you all that those that dislike or hate the movie are a tiny minority if Solo hadn't tanked. 10% boycotting shouldn't have been able to sink anything, let alone a SW movie.

    But let's say it is 10%. if they are also the most enthusiastic, the most repeat customers, the most likely to spend money who cares if they're the majority? They are the ones with the most influence on your bottom line. If you're Iger you aren't listening to any of these people who continue to say everything's fine while "the ship is taking on water"
     
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  6. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Nope. That claim is not in the study. It's just about people interaction with Rian Johnson about the film. 80% of Star Wars fans tweeting Rian Johnson are positive. 10% percent of the negative tweets are from bots/trolls/sock puppets/alt-righters and the other 10% are negative. That's pretty much all his study claims.
    Here's a survey from June if that's something that interests you. Basically it's in line with other controlled samples. Most people like the film. The key difference between TLJ and TFA is some people really love it and some people really hate it. It's more polarizing, which has been my experience talking about the film with people.
    A lot of people still went to see Solo, but Star Wars isn't immune to bad reviews. 4 films in 4 years is a lot and Solo arrived against heavy competition and the reviews were mixed from fans and from the general audience. I understand why some people want to blame TLJ for Solo's performance, but ultimately Solo never really excited the fans in the first place. When it arrived to mixed reviews it was never going to be a huge hit. I'm just happy the film isn't terrible.
     
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  7. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Attuned

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    So, why was Kathleen Kennedy's contract renewed then, if things are this bad?
     
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  8. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

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    Page 23 second paragraph is very important. It mentions the limitations of the findings. It’s unfortunate that the news organizations didn’t adhere to the mention of caution expressed by the author.
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    So when you typed this:

    That was your feeling, not what this particular study was articulating. Fair enough.

    95 respondents though? Look I know anything with n>=20 sample size is statistically significant but 95 respondents? I wish Nate Silver and 538 would just do a poll on this, at least their methodologies and sampling is something I have confidence in. Whether the result is that the fans that hate movie are a minority or a majority, at least we'd have a reliable and definitive answer and could be done with this part of the debate.

    Rogue One shared screen time against Moana, Collateral Beauty, Fantastic Beasts, Passengers, Fences, Hidden Figures and La La Land. Seems like it did ok against the competition. What were the bad reviews for SOLO? I know that these have been the de facto responses meant to explain SOLO's problems (which also include the notion that fans were turned off by the firing of directors and extensive reshoots). Honestly these things ring hollow to me because I'm dubious on how many movie goers are actually influenced to avoid (or see) a movie based on reviews. Word of mouth bad reviews came in early for TLJ and people still went to see it. Great word of mouth reviews came in early for SOLO (I know I personally provided some) and it still tanked.
     
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  10. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    None of those movies you listed are anywhere (Not even in the same ballpark) comparable to the hype between Infinity War (10 years in the making), Deadpool 2 (highly anticipated) and Incredible 2 (highly anticipated for 14 years). Any movie that would of came out in the same time frame of Solo would of done bad even Rogue One. Not a single one of those movies you listen were highly anticipated. Disney should of left Solo in December, im sure Marry Poppins wouldn't steal all the thunder nearly as much as Infinity War and Deadpool 2 did.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    FWIW It was over 200 respondents.
    It's the only Disney Star Wars film to not be certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and audience scores were much lower than Rogue One/TFA/TLJ. The word of mouth scores were lower as well. The reviews weren't horrible, but the weren't good enough to generate a "must see" buzz about the film.
     
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  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Because firing one of the most powerful female producers in this day and age would be an absolute PR disaster. Better to just shovel some money her way and let the higher ups start making the decisions, which Iger made it clear that he is doing now.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2018 ---
    They never do. News organization just care about generating hits and getting attention so they grab whatever headline they can, no matter how ridiculously misleading it is, and go with it.
     
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  13. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

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    Personally I didn’t like tlj. I don’t agree with the direction. But I don’t think kk should be fired. Mistakes are made by everyone. We are all human. Hopefully she will try to fix the problem that she helped create. I don’t think she intended to create the situation that has transpired.

    I personally never thought that the backlash supporters were in the majority. I do think it’s more than ten percent. I also think the backlash people who are true Star Wars fans that don’t have a political/racist/gender agenda are the fans that go 5 and 6 times or more like I use to.

    Her contract was renewed, but I’m sure she has been directed to fix the situation.
     
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  14. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Bob Iger has the last word and is ultimately responsible for all decisions concerning Disney products, so he has always “made the decisions”. In fact, he has accepted responsibility for Solo’s low performance at the box office.

    Or do you mean that Bob Iger is going to start writing SW scripts and decide plot points and character arcs? That would be hilarious.
     
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  15. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Excuses, excuses. We also had 1.6 billion less people in the world in 2002. 1.6 less potential movie goers.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2018 ---
    Mojo doesn't figure in technology that didn't exhist like IMAX or Dolby or 3D. Price boosters. At least 40% probably would of saw AOTC in another format besides standard if it exhisted. That 5.81 ticket becomes $9.00 back then if we had IMAX.
     
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  16. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    To think that TLJ is the reason for Solo box office numbers or decline in merchandise sales is a post hoc fallacy. One cannot co-relate events just because one happens before the other.
     
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  17. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    How many of that 1.6 billion went to see SW? It's no excuses, you can find tons of articles that support it. People simplely don't have as much disposable income and there's been less people going to theaters compare to now and back then. Why do you think theaters are now selling beer/alcohol, burgers, wings, etc? That didn't happen back then unless you went to a specialty theater. Heck even video games were better back then than now. You may deny it but thounds of economist disagree with you.

    It also doesn't factor in matinees, $5 tuesdays and MoviePass either. I can play that card too. I honestly hope you dont think 3D movies is something new? 3D movies has been around since 1920s. It was mostly a gimmick hollywood had a hard time getting it to the masses. I remember watching 3D movies as kid in the 90s and it was unfortunately not good. When the 3D movies as we know it came out, I was very skeptical about them due to what I remember growing up. Also the Episode 1 3D treatment wasn't really that good either.

    Also IMAX was around in the 1960s even though it was limited to speciality movies was very expensive. So I don't buy your premium format argument. If that was the case why did Titanic and Gone With The Wind do so well. Those 2 movies didn't rely on premium formats. If anything it's harder for a movie to make bank now than it was back then.
     
    #77 deadmanwalkin009, Oct 6, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  18. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I hear you, but I disagree. It's my opinion that both TFA and TLJ would have done just fine against any movie (including Infinity War) in part because of the overlap in fandom. Going to see Deadpool 2 or Infinity War does not preclude me from seeing any other movie I wanted to see (and I say that as a person who read the Infinity Gauntlet series when it came out in 91 and was an instant fan). Every movie faces competition, TFA, TLJ, R1 all had competition.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 7, 2018 ---
    Wouldn't it be a Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy to say Solo's Box Office numbers decline (specifically) is due to:

    • Bad reviews
    • Stories of trouble on the set
    • Fired Directors
    • Film competition

    All these things are reasons offered by most people who like TLJ as reasons that SOLO bombed by, as best I can tell, no one has established any causality between them and the box office numbers.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 7, 2018 ---
    I'm referring to the other poll you posted from Medium. I think this is their raw data (in Survey Monkey)

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YQHMNT8CL/

    There are only 95 respondents here
     
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  19. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I'm not saying you're wrong there. I was simply saying that associating two events just because one happened before the other was a mistake. The poster had already established TLJ as a bona fide reason for Solo to underperform. The poster even said that Solo doing badly was a measure of how much people dislike TLJ and was puzzled that people were "maintaining the illusion" that TLJ hasn't had negative repercussions. This is the kind of flawed reasoning I was exposing.

    As for why Solo underperformed and the possible reasons you list above, I don't know... I leave this kind of research to the experts. What I can offer, however, is my humble opinion, which is that bad reviews and film competition seem the probable causes for Solo underperforming. I do not treat this hunch of mine as a fact or evidence of any kind, unlike the poster I was answering to, who was clearly treating theirs as such.
     
    #79 Kylocity, Oct 7, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    You obviously don't have the first clue how the corporate world works.
    I have to confess I do not know why you are being so ridiculous as to suggest my statement implies Iger is going to actually write screenplays. Please let me know if you would like to discuss this matter in an intelligent, mature fashion instead of putting such ridiculous notions out there.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 8, 2018 ---
    If that is "all his study claims" then why did you conclude that "the odd thing about The Last Jedi is the reaction online on Twitter, Reddit, and YouTube doesn't really match what's happening in the real world."..?

    Sounds to me like your moving the goalposts quite a bit regarding what the study is actually stating.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 8, 2018 ---
    Give me a break. You cannot possibly be serious. Blaming declining merchandise sales on the fact that a great number of people didn't like the movie is not even remotely a "post hoc fallacy." There is a direct cause-and-effect in play.

    Do you honestly believe there is no cause-and-effect connection between the popularity of a movie like this and the subsequent merchandising numbers???
     
    #80 Wolfpack, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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