Weaponizing the haters

You’re right. I haven’t the foggiest idea... but I thought it was safe to assume the head of an organisation is the one holding ultimate responsibility... but maybe I’m wrong... you are free to explain why this misconception is not correct, as you seem to be an authority on the matter.

I was just making fun of you saying “letting the high ups make the decisions”. I had no clue what you meant. As far as I can tell everything is run by Bob Iger and his advisers, but you told me I’m wrong, so now you may explain to me how things work in the corporate world and how wrong I am. I’ll take it in the chin. When I’m wrong, I’m wrong.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2018 ---

“Believing” something is possible is one thing, treating it as “fact” is another. You were treating TLJ being the reason for merchandise sale drop and Solo’s underperforming as fact. To do that you need to back up your claim with scientific research.

 

I will be glad to clear up your misconception and teach you a few things about organizational structure. The head of an organization does indeed hold the ultimate responsibility. But you're subtly moving the goalposts and retreating from your original statement.

What you originally said was "Bob Iger has the last word and is ultimately responsible for all decisions concerning Disney products, so he has always made the decisions” (emphasis added by me). That is not how organizations work in the corporate world. In any organizational structure (from corporations to the military to private business) the leaders will often delegate decision making to subordinates. For example, it is fallacious to think that "Bob Iger is the CEO, therefore he decided the Star Wars movie release schedule and he made the decision to hire Rian Johnson and Lord/Miller and JJ Abrams (etc)."

As CEO he has the authority to delegate such things to the people who work for him. While he certainly has the authority to approve such decisions and he also the authority to overrule the decisions of his subordinates, there are parsecs of difference between "approving a decision" and "making a decision."

It is clear that, prior to now, he has been very hands-off with both Marvel and LFL. He has delegated the authority of running those studios to other people. Now, he has made it clear he is not going to be quite so hands-off with LFL going forward. I can't say I blame him.

I have addressed your points and in return I asked you a question. I am just asking a simple opinion question, have the moxie to answer it:

Do you honestly believe there is no cause-and-effect connection between the popularity of a movie like this and the subsequent merchandising numbers???

 

My problem with your posts is that you estate things as fact having no evidence whatsoever. I’m sure that Bob Iger delegates authority to others (being still responsible for their decisions) but do you know for sure the extent of his involvement? I don’t, I can only assume. He took responsibility for Solo’s early realease so for me that means we should hold him responsible for that decision, nobody else. Why insist blaming KK or any other subordinate? You have no evidence. You only know for sure that, ultimately, Bob Iger is responsible for all the Disney products.

As for your question at the end... now who’s moving the goalposts? I was always begging you to stick to the facts

Do not ask me for my opinion. It’s worthless. But if you want to know, I think there are probably other reasons why there has been reduced merchandise sale... my first instinct would not be to blame a film highly successful at the box office such as TLJ...

 

Part of the problem with TLJ merchandise is that it's a real cheap line and not original compared to the TFA line. Kids dont't buy these toys like we did as kids, so you have to make them good quality for collectors. For example, the 3.75 TLJ had new figures like Luke and Leia that were worthy to buy, but then they had characters like Hux, Poe, Finn that were the SAME figures as TFA! They could have put out Finn when he is dressed up in an Empire Outfit, instead they put out the figure where he is wearing Poe's jacket. Also, I work in the printing industry and the cardboard they use to secure the figures is a much cheaper stock then the TFA brand. Many collectors like me don't open the figure as the cardboard picture is very cool to display, but they weren't even the standard size like previous issues and bend very easy.

The TFA 3.75 line was great with multiple waves (after the movie came out they put out Kylo Ren without his mask, Finn in a Stormtrooper outfit, etc) and they used a really good quality cardboard, so they stay in better condition. The TLJ line was just poor overall in terms of quality and selection, so I didn't bother after I bought Luke and Leia. And I'm the type of collector who will buy the whole line for completest sake like I did with the TFA 3.75 line in 2015-16.

 

Well that's a pretty silly approach to things, and further demonstrates how little you know about corporate/organizational structures.

I agree.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2018 ---

The TFA 3.75 line was utter crap, and then they managed to make TLJ even worse. The Black Series - especially the Vintage Collection - is the only quality product being put out there in the action figure line, but those will set you back a little extra (and it saddens me how far they deviate from their roots).

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2018 ---

The merchandising release schedule for TFA, R1, and TLJ were virtually identical. 2017 losing a little momentum compared to 2015 was natural, but losing to 2016 (a year without a main-episode release) is a BIG deal and a bad thing.

 

Hahaha whatever...

 

I know... It's a good way to shut people up. It works.

 

It also is a sign that someone is not interested in a serious discussion. So, as you say, whatever.

 

If you’re ever interested in one particular SW merchandise to collect, I would recommend the SW Vintage Collection line which started around 2010.

It’s the only thing I collect now as they actually hold their value because they were a limited run and there is a heavy demand among collectors since Disney bought the franchise and rejuvenated enthusiasm.

They are figures from all 8 Saga movies & standalones in the OT carded backs from 77-83. They have over 100 figures to pick from so it’s a line for any fan. (I keep them in the original card and don’t remove the figure).

And it’s addicting once you start collecting as there are a lot of good buys on eBay!

 

I’m always ready for a serious discussion... it’s when you say things like me having a silly approach to things (because I choose to be skeptical) or try to put me down picking my own words, when I just lose interest. When the ad hominem starts, it’s better to move one, as it indicates we are not defending our positions anymore. We are defending ourselves.

My only request to you was not to treat your opinion as fact as it was not helping the discussion in this thread. I also think I’ve been consistently civil expressing my point of view.

 

When I say Bob Iger is going to take a more hands on approach to running LFL, and your reply is (direct quote, your words): "Or do you mean that Bob Iger is going to start writing SW scripts and decide plot points and character arcs? That would be hilarious. " then with all due respect, that's not taking the discussion seriously.

As have I. Regardless, I will continue stating my opinions in the manner I see fit.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2018 ---

This is pretty much where I am right now. The regular 3.75 action figures are so disappointing that I have dropped those. The Vintage Collection remain the best product out there in that line. I wish they would switch over the primary product line to that format.

 

You didn’t make yourself clear and what you said sounded very condescending towards KK. “Throw money in her direction”, you said and made it sound as if Bob Iger, the “higher up” was going to put her in her place or something... I just found all that paragraph not only presumptive but also very neglectful of the fact that KK has done an incredible job reviving the SW franchise and I’m sure Bob Iger has nothing but respect for her.

Some people are mad at KK and RJ for Luke dying in TLJ and film decisions like that. I thought maybe you wanted Bob Iger to “save” SW by giving his input on plot points.... I wasn’t sure of what you meant. Apologies as I see you found that highly offensive.

Then, I can only say that with that attitude it is you and not me who is not taking this discussion seriously, as disguising opinions as facts will only make it worthless.

 

Have to add that part of the merchandise sales problem is lack of really new merchandise. Disney/Lucasfilm made the conscious choice to appeal to nostalgia with TFA. There was very little in the way of new designs. Since TLJ occurred directly after TFA really couldnt bring much new in the way of designs.

Really feel for Ep9 merchandise to sell better we need to see new designs. With the Resistance having to recruit systems to help I assume the systems wont all show up with more Xwings and Awings. I hope so for merchandise and the movie looks.

 

Toy sales for most major brands are down across the board as well.
Smaller companies that make cheaper toys with online components are doing well.
Funko, Shopkins etc.

 

Pretty much everyone I know is indifferent towards the film. Those that aren't I tend to find are also people who are easily influenced by other people's opinions. They probably read or watched something that made their minds up for them. In the odd occasion they might have really liked or hated it. But I don't tend to hear that very often. More of a shrug, it's okay i guess, I liked TFA, tends to be the consensus.

I do wonder though if the extreme elements of the debate or even politics in general realise how much damage they do to their own 'side' by being so crazy. Many people form their views on these matters based more on their hatred of 'the other side' over how much they like or agree with the side they find themselves on. Like people who vote right wing because they hate all the SJW-ness in today's society or people who claim to worship something like The Last jedi because they see how much it repulses the alt right. I find all this mad. I don't see any feminist or social justice-y agenda in the new Star Wars films, or at least any more or less than the previous 6 films and I've encountered nothing in society that leads me to believe any one group of people are discriminated against or marginalised, in western society anyway. Only people with psychological problems who spend way too much time on the internet.

The trouble is then when people have legitimate criticisms or opinions on something they get grouped in with the crazies. i really don't think articles like this or for example JJ's threatened by women comment help matters at all. You don't put out a fire by fanning the flames

 

That neatly sums it up for me too.

I didn't like The Last Jedi; it is certainly the least of the movies by some margin for me.
And I don't say that as someone who has been, or is inclined to be, influenced by any kind of perceived agenda or public outcry - I say that as someone who has been enjoying, thinking about and discussing these movies in one way or another pretty much constantly for almost 40 years.

But that's just my private opinion. I know some people liked it. Why would I want to convince them otherwise?
I've even seen people saying it is their favourite SW movie of the lot - utterly baffling to me, but fair play to you if that is the case. Doesn't really have any impact on what I think and vice versa.
And, by the same token, I'm equally baffled by people at the other end of the spectrum harping on about how it has "ruined" this and that and broken Star Wars forever.
It's pretty easy for me to accept this film as the stinker I felt it was and still enjoy those other films I do like in the way I have always enjoyed them. It really doesn't take much imagination.

Ridley, Driver, Isaac and (slightly less so) Boyega are all likeable and watchable in a way that many of the prequel performances were not. So, if anything, the sequels have got to be applauded for bringing a bit of that spark back to the saga, if nothing else... In my humble opinion, of course.

 

That a was a rational and level-headed post and I applaud you for it...now, get out while you still can!

I feel as you do, I don't like TLJ but I don't have a problem with those that love it. What upsets me the most is that since TLJ...I don't care about Star Wars anymore, at least, not the way I once did. I don't care about Episode IX just as I didn't care about Solo. Oh well, life goes on...